Author Topic: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster  (Read 1136 times)

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2020, 06:54:01 pm »
Books:

Apparently all of the .38 S&W revolvers acquired by the NWMP had 3.25" barrels and, except for at least 25 blued 4th Model Safety revolvers (... a specific purchase of that number is mentioned, not sure if there were any more) were nickle plated. 

The holsters posted above look black but only because the images are greyscale photos (i.e. B&W ... indeed, there are no colour images in "Arms & Accoutrements".)

In fact, NWMP/RNWMP/RCMP holsters and other related leather equipment have always been brown (or "russet" ... although although their early riding boots were black ... check out the colour plates in my original post.)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 06:55:35 pm by RattlesnakeJack »
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2020, 06:57:54 pm »
Rattlesnake Jack
Looks like you cross the medicine line not far from where I was born in Havre, MT, there because Chinook where we lived at the time did not have a hospital.
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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2020, 07:19:48 pm »
Please tell me more about how this faux 73/76 came about.

Smoke:

This is something I had a gunsmith friend make up for me quite some time ago (probalby at least 20 years) when I was quite active in cowboy action shooting.  I didn't think I'd ever likely get a "full-size" 1876 and, in any event a rifle chambered in a "rifle" cartridge (all of the NWMP carbines and Canadian Militia Department carbines  and rifles were .45-75) would not be usable in "cowboy action "main matches" 

However, my friend had a complete original Model 1876 action available and confirmed he could use it to build a reduced-size "faux" NWMP carbine for me, which I requested be chambered for .45 Colt (like all of my other CAS rifles and revolvers.)  The action was from a .44-40 rifle, but of course that cartridge is close enough in length and rim diameter to the.45 Colt cartridge that this was no problem.

He made the buttstock and forestock and most of the furniture (certainly the buttplate and nosecap) ... the sights are actually off a Martini-Henry rifle ...  Can't recall if he used an existing barrel or made it from a blank, but he chambered and rifled it ... it is quite accurate.
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Offline smoke

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2020, 08:00:41 pm »
RSJ...that is a really cool little rifle and project.  If you get a chance to post more pics of it, that would be great.

For the patrol jacket, is there something off the shelf you will use or do you need to get it made?

It looks like the cartridge belt is nothing more than a typical western belt but with cartridge loops closed on the bottoms?

Joe Salter has the Arms and Accouterments book....he's gonna get more of my money.

Is there decent uniform book on the NWMP?
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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2020, 01:20:27 am »
Smoke:

Actually, there is a olace that I can get a stable jacket very much like the one issued by the NWMP, made to my measurements, for about US$160  it is a business which sells reasonably-priced clothing and other kit for Highland pipe bands, and one item they offer is a cotton drill Scottish styled "cutaway" jacket they refer to as a "Patrol Tunic", whch can be ordered with modifications. Here is an image from their website together with a copy of that same image with some rather crude "photoshopping" done to give an idea of the version I would order ... 



... did a bit of "airbrushing" to eliminate all pockets, modified the colour, and also lowered the standing collar.

Although my image editing skills weren't up to the challenge, I can also have it made with a less pronounced "cutaway" at the bottom of the front closure, so it has the more rounded corners seen in the period photos in my original post.  Mind you, that wouldn't be strictly necessary, because other period photos I have collected show  a version of the stable jacket with a "cutaway" front ... presumably attributable to different makers  ...



As for uniform references, the "bible" would undoubtedly be the 542=page tome "Uniforms of the Canadian Mounted Police" by James J. Boulton, published in 1990 ... but it is one of those out-of-print treasures which seem to command ridiculouly high prices - currently US$300 and up!

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30457683244

A much more affordable reference (albeit very much limited in scope by comparison) is Osprey Men-at-Arms Series #197, "The Royal Canadian Mounted Police 1873-1987".

I can't seem to locate any additional images of my faux NWMP carbine right now,  unfortunately.   
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2020, 01:30:02 am »
Rattlesnake Jack
Looks like you cross the medicine line not far from where I was born in Havre, MT ...

Yes indeed ... the most direct route actually takes me to Havre, then east on US2 for a ways (right through Chinook) before dropping south ...
 ;D
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Offline smoke

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2020, 07:05:21 am »
$300... :o.  I'll pass.  I have enough over priced reference books as it is.  I think the cheap Osprey will work.

Have you seen the WPG tunic?  Cheaper buy in but it requires some tailoring and a dye job.

http://onlinemilitaria.net/products/4066-UK-Khaki-Drill-Other-Ranks-Service-Dress-Tunic-Scottish-Pattern/

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Offline Quick Fire

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2020, 07:55:03 am »
Drydock, I too would be in favor of adding the 1876 Winchester in the correct configuration to the military class.
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Offline Whiskey Double

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2020, 04:22:13 pm »
I have a question what class would this 76 be in? Black powder or smokeless military.
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Offline Whiskey Double

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2020, 04:38:44 pm »
I am assuming it would be black powder class. So trapdoors and Sharp's will be competing against this gun correct?
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Online Drydock

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2020, 05:29:52 pm »
Depends. As a pre 1886,  If he loads with BP, its a BP gun, if smokeless, then he competes against smokeless rifles.  Same as a Spencer, or my Vetterli last year.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 05:33:09 pm by Drydock »
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Offline Whiskey Double

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2020, 06:01:43 pm »
Still learning , had to ask. Just when I thought I knew ......
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Offline Niederlander

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2020, 06:16:31 pm »
As an aside, from what I've observed, rifle caliber lever actions don't really give an advantage in speed.  They are very quick until you have to reload, and since you almost have to load from the magazine, that tends to slow you down quite a bit.  Of course, a '95 Winchester not set up for stripper clips is probably the slowest of all to reload.  It really all comes down to the skill of the shooter (as it usually does).
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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2020, 06:44:21 pm »
Drydock,  is the raising of this question here in this thread (as you worded it above) sufficient to get the matter considered by the Brigade Staff, or will it need to be more formally presented?  (Despite having "fallen into" this tunic, as it were, it will take quite a lot of time and effort to accumulate everything else I'll need ... including the stable jacket for the field uniform, so I do need to get this determined as soon as practicable.)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 02:20:01 am by RattlesnakeJack »
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Offline Niederlander

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2020, 07:55:31 pm »
Question for Brigade Staff: Shall we consider the NWMP a military/paramilitary organization?  I would be in favor of this. 

CAVEAT: This is a question regarding the Northwest Mounted Police, completely separate from the later Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
That works for me.  I think Jack has made an excellent case for it.
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Offline Buffalo Creek Law Dog

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2020, 10:06:24 pm »
Just to support Jack's submission on whether the NWMP were Military or police, they were both, and wore yellow trouser stripes and other yellow uniform markings indicating that they were mounted cavalry troops.
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Online Drydock

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2020, 03:47:50 am »
This will be sufficient: I Ask all brigade staff to PM me with their decision in this matter, and I will give you the result asap.
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Offline Buffalo Creek Law Dog

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2020, 12:01:55 pm »
In a nutshell, the NWMP were military with police powers.
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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2020, 02:45:44 pm »
Thanks, Chuck!

(Now to get busy enlisting the aid of the Russians in this vote! Say ... is your son around? ;D )
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Online Drydock

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2020, 04:49:00 pm »
The 1895 has always been legal.  Save the vodka for better things.  Like cleaning battery terminals . . .

Fwiw, Democrat caucas voting software is not being used here.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline smoke

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2020, 04:53:26 pm »
If the 76 is approved, how close to military issue does it have to be?  I don't believe that Chiappa makes the NWMP version any longer.  Can they be a work in progress?
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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2020, 04:55:19 pm »
Also FWIW, I used a Vetterli with Vitali speed loaders last year, and got beat by 2 trapdoors and a Spencer.  Then I used a Sharps carbine out in Colorado, and set fast overall time for the match.  Target acquisition and accuracy are far more important than the action type in the Skirmish Scenario.  But evaluations will be ongoing.  Should repeaters show dominance, a separate class may be reinstated.
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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2020, 04:57:16 pm »
It has to be the musket stocked NWMP version.  Any other version will be relegated to Civilian Long Action class.
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Offline smoke

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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2020, 05:00:20 pm »
Gotcha.  Are there any other lever guns that were issued?  I can only think of the m1895. 
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Re: Possible NWMP Uniform and Kit at 2020 National Muster
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2020, 05:09:04 pm »
To my knowledge, that's it.  I used a .30 Krag M1895 Musket in 2018, and did quite well, but only because I figured out that the only time you have the action closed is when your firing a shot.  Other than that you constantly top the thing off.  And single load if you run empty in a longer string.  You ain't shooting, you need to be loading.  Which is good advice for any repeater really.
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