Author Topic: Serial number lookup  (Read 331 times)

Offline Snakeeater

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Serial number lookup
« on: December 23, 2019, 08:15:34 pm »
I have a new acquisition, an M1860 Army Rifle SN#23638.
First Cousin (Six times removed) to BGen Isaac (Stand Firm) Uwatie,  Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation, 1862-1866

Offline Two Flints

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Re: Serial number lookup
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2019, 01:37:50 pm »
Snakeater

I'm being held hostage at my mother-law's home out of state . . .wait until Friday and I will let you know what I find!

Two Flints

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Offline Two Flints

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Re: Serial number lookup
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2019, 04:53:11 pm »
Snakeeater,

Checked on your Spencer Rifle 23638 - you have two possible choices -

Spencer Rifle serial # 23616  was issued to Company E, 148th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry in October, 1865 or, my choice, 

Spencer Rifle serial # 23728 was issued to Company G, 105th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry in October 1865 (no day or month listed).

Best I can offer you.  The 148th was issued Spencer Rifles in very scattered sequence of serial #s which is why I am going with the 105th, but I could be wrong.

a Two Flints

Una mano lava l'altra
Moderating SSS is a "labor of love"
Viet Vet  '68-69
3/12 - 4th Inf Div
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Offline Snakeeater

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Re: Serial number lookup
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2019, 08:22:41 am »
This rifle appears to have seen very little use compared to the 39th/8th Indiana rifle. There is just a hint of movement in the battery from the hammer impacting the frame, and the rifling is almost like new. Very strong and no indication of any reline. It's still full bore size, and while someone has bluffed it bright, it will repatinate over time. I bought it from Lodgewood
First Cousin (Six times removed) to BGen Isaac (Stand Firm) Uwatie,  Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation, 1862-1866

Offline Snakeeater

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Re: Serial number lookup
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2020, 12:58:27 pm »
I agree that 23638 is likely 105th PA Volunteers, but I also noticed in Marcot (p61) is a 37th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry rifle (23862) from the Paul Putty Collection. Although there is no further information indicated about that rifle, rifle #28759 is identified to Horace P. Clark, also of the 37th Massachusetts  who mustered out in June 1865. According to a letter in Marcot by BGen Oliver Edwards, the commander of the 37th Massachusetts, to the Chief of Ordnance for the State of Massachusetts, he wrote that the 37th Massachusetts received their Spencer Rifles on 14 July 1864, which according to ordnance returns for that regiment indicates they recieved the Spencer's in a camp near Petersburg, VA. There is a Invoice of Stores dated 30 Sept 1864, at Camp in the field, Virginia, showing some 30,689 rounds of Spencer Rifle cartridges and other spare parts, which based on the quantities listed in the Army Ordnance Manual for 1,000 arms, figures only about 60% of the spares required per 1,000 arms, which suggests that the 37th Massachusetts may have only received about 600 rifles. We know according to Marcot, the last batch of rifles that were to be delivered to the State of Massachusetts were, with the permission of Massachusetts Governor Andrews instead delivered to New York Arsenal on 7 May 1864 so it may be that the 37th Massachusetts received part of this shipment of 1868 rifles (together with 1176 carbines recieved 9 May), rifles less than 60 days later. That letter is reprinted by Marcot, comes from the House of Representatives Documents, to Governor Andrews from BG George Ramsay, Chief of Ordnance, Washington DC.  I am just wondering what might be the serial number range that is identified for any Massachusetts units for Spencer Rifles in 1864?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 01:01:08 pm by Snakeeater »
First Cousin (Six times removed) to BGen Isaac (Stand Firm) Uwatie,  Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation, 1862-1866

Offline Two Flints

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Re: Serial number lookup
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2020, 01:54:30 pm »
Snakeeater,

Check out this link:  https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,51114.msg624848.html#msg624848

My online photo service is down/not working so the scanned pages will not appear, maybe when they fix their issue.

Read my initial comments for the serial # range you are looking for.  I have a Mass. 37th Rifle.

Two Flints

Una mano lava l'altra
Moderating SSS is a "labor of love"
Viet Vet  '68-69
3/12 - 4th Inf Div
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Offline treebeard

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Re: Serial number lookup
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2020, 10:56:12 am »
Snake eater

By July 1864 I would think a regiment with a full 1,000 man complement would have been a rarity.
600 sounds about right to me ? I believe during Grant?s 1864 campaign he lost about 100,000 in KIA and wounded. I also have read ( don?t remember where) that the 1,000 man regiments were awkward to handle in combat (considering the technology of the time) and that 600 was about as large as was efficient.

Steve

Offline Snakeeater

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Re: Serial number lookup
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2020, 03:09:28 pm »
It's like trying to estimate the number of Spencer's that were issued to the 105th Pennsylvania Infantry who received their Spencer Rifles in front of Petersburg on or about 6 October 1864. They had just received 162 men from the 62d PA Inf on 5 September, before receiving another 122 recruits on 24 March 1865 and 170 more 4 days later. But when the 105th was mustered out of service on 11 July 1865, they were only 384 men and officers. So when you subtract the number of raw recruits they received in March from the total number of men mustered out only leaves about 92 men in the 105th at the time they were issued Spencer Rifles. Of course, it is known that at least one recruit, Charles M. Fox (1836-1914) mustered in on 2 March 1865 was issued a Spencer Rifle (#24182) and mustered out 11 July when the 105th was disbanded. Supposedly the SRS records some 11 Spencer Rifles between 28531 and 28895 as issued to Company G of the 105th. Fox served in Company E. But there are a great many rifles attributed to the 105th that fall in the 22,000 range too, but exactly how many of these were actually issued to the 105th does not seem to be as many as has been suggested. Unless they issued two rifles to each soldier, in April 1865 their roster shows only 560 men and 22 officers. If you then substract the 292 new recruits received in March, leaves just 268 men in the 105th prior to 24 March 1865. Go figure?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 03:15:00 pm by Snakeeater »
First Cousin (Six times removed) to BGen Isaac (Stand Firm) Uwatie,  Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation, 1862-1866

 

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