Author Topic: ASM Walker  (Read 777 times)

Offline Kent Shootwell

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 543
  • Got whiskey, will stumble.
ASM Walker
« on: December 12, 2019, 07:55:57 pm »
A buddy spotted one at a shop that is what I would call assembled with nearly no finishing done. What can all you clever fellows tell me about it. I?m considering it as a project for color case and char coal blueing.
KIMG3262 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 08:03:07 pm by Kent Shootwell »
Little powder much lead shoots far kills dead.
Member, whiskey livers

Offline 45 Dragoon

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 153
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2019, 08:24:14 pm »
Good "project" gun but personally, just because it's ASM and it's 2019  .  .  .  I would much rather have something current!! That's purely me .  .  .   

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @goonsgunworks

Offline Kent Shootwell

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 543
  • Got whiskey, will stumble.
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2019, 09:44:28 am »
?just because it?s an ASM? Care to elaborate on that?
Little powder much lead shoots far kills dead.
Member, whiskey livers

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 620
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2019, 10:15:16 am »
Kent
i have read that ASM quality was somewhat variable. I have an 1851 Navy made by ASM and it seems to be a good one. It has been shot a lot until my Uberti 1851 was added to the armory.
I would recommend asking Coffinmaker his thoughts.
Bunk

Offline Mogorilla

  • NCOWS
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 1357
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2019, 11:06:02 am »
My $0.02 on ASM.   I am finishing a gun belt and holster for a friends ASM 1860.   The gun is a solid tank.   I am impressed by it, as I have it for fit.   It has some parkerized finish that kind of looks like the finish on the barrel in the picture of the Walker.   That I am not impressed by.  but the internals, and all are good, shape and fit are good too.   Other problem is nipples.   On his 1860, he is missing 2, both he and I have looked high and low for replacements and they are not to be found.  ASM had a different size and thread than the Pietta or Uberti ones you find.   He may end up having to have them retapped. 
So my Caveat on ASM is finding parts.
NCOWS #3297

Offline Coffinmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5727
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2019, 11:12:28 am »
 :D  Somebody call me??  :o   Thought I heard my name in the distance  :P   Since we are discussing ASM "Armi San Marco" I'll wade in.  At one time, ASM built some really fine Replicants.  Suppliers to the stars as it twer.  Then something went horribly wrong and their quality and quality control went inna toilette.  Right down the Krapper as it twer.  Thomas Krapper, famous for the flush Krapper.  Anyway, with ASM it's a Krap Shoot.  Literally.  You may well stumble on a good one.  Maybe.  When I was happily plying my trade and totally fascinated with ASM 1st Model Conversions, only about 1 in seven ASMs were sound.  the rest were a reassembled parts supply.  Further, when problems cropped up, ASM parts wouldn't fit ASM guns.  Twasant that some fun (NOT).

My personal council is this.  If you cannot play with it first, leave it there.  If you can play with it, cycle the action, if it throws by, leave it there.  If it doesn't rotate all the way into battery, leave it there.  Take a range rod with you and see if the bore/chambers line up at full cock.  If not .........  Do the push hammer forward real hard test.  It should stay at full cock.  Offer 50Bucks less.  There are NO PARTS available.  If critical, it may be possible to re-work/fit Uberti parts.  Pietta doesn't make a Biggun so yer stuck with a single source.

Might just turn out to be a swell "Project" item if you can buy it "right."

Offline 45 Dragoon

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 153
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2019, 01:15:13 pm »
Kent,
 Bingo!!  Mogorilla and Coffin are spot on!! ASM's are "spotty"  and parts are pretty much non-egistant (not to mention their bolts are weird lookin birds!!). They had some really nice offerings over the years but the bad ones are numerous!! I owned an '80's Walker, 1st , 2nd and 3rd Mod. Dragoon ASM's  .  .  .  trying to decide if I'm gonna stop working on them like everyone else has.

  Anyway, that's what I was trying to get across .  .  .   

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @goonsgunworks

Offline Kent Shootwell

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 543
  • Got whiskey, will stumble.
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2019, 01:38:41 pm »
Thanks all, my hobby often seems to be the smith of lost causes. I should look for doable wreaks to salvage!
Little powder much lead shoots far kills dead.
Member, whiskey livers

Offline Coffinmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5727
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2019, 12:17:51 pm »

Aw heck Kent.  Al long as the results don't wind up inna trash can, lost causes can be very rewarding.

Offline hellgate

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1610
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2019, 09:44:59 am »
If the timing is good as per the prior suggestions and the cylinder does not rub on the frame edge get it (especially if you gan whittle the price way down). The only part that is likely to go bad is the hand spring and I have replaced several ASM hand springs on other models with a portion of a bobby pin shaped and staked in place of the original.
"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

SASS#3302L
REGULATOR
RUCAS#58
Wolverton Mt. Peacekeepers
SCORRS
DGB#29
NRA Life
CASer since 1992

Offline Professor Marvel

  • purveyor of useless items to the gentry
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2284
  • learn from the past, or be doomed to repeat it
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2019, 02:14:09 pm »
Ah My Good Kent

I have seen the results of your workshop efforts, so If It Is cheap enough and cycles correctly
I would say go!

I would love to see your color   SORRY! color case on that!

Regarding ASM breakagw.. ..

I am the proud owner of a pair, as in TWO, ASM Dragoons that had the cylinder pins snap off at the
End of the wedge slot!  No I didn?t do it, and yes I got them dirt cheap ( along with 2. New Cylinder pin blanks  from dixie) and they await restoration....  and by gum those things are heavy, I swear
If I ever carry them in holsters they will pull mypants off!

Yhs
Prof Marvel
 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 02:16:01 am by Professor Marvel »
Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of
Professor Marvel's
Traveling Apothecary
and
Fortune Telling Emporium


Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Powder, Percussion Caps, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods,
and
Picture Postcards

Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions
and
Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
[
Available by Appointment for Lectures on Any Topic

Offline 45 Dragoon

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 153
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2019, 02:24:59 pm »
Hey Perfesser, I've heard of that happening and that is one of the things that a short arbor will allow to happen. Probably a fairly high hardness (brittle) and with no support (bottomed out against the barrel assy), it has space to move to.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @goonsgunworks

Offline Kent Shootwell

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 543
  • Got whiskey, will stumble.
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2019, 04:15:35 pm »
That?s the kind of people that hang out in places like this! Trying to lead a innocent man down the path to insanity just for the fun of it. I need another project like a duck needs an outboard motor.
But just for conversation sake what?s ?cheap enough? on an old retired mans budget?
Little powder much lead shoots far kills dead.
Member, whiskey livers

Offline Coffinmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5727
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2019, 04:24:18 pm »

Personally, I'd be offering a sum somewhat less than $200.  Seller has $249 on the tag.  Too much for an ASM.  They are NOT collector fodder.  $200 is TOP money for that item.  I'd prefer $180 but the seller may not have a sense of humor.  Go for it.  Worst the seller can do is say no.

Offline Professor Marvel

  • purveyor of useless items to the gentry
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2284
  • learn from the past, or be doomed to repeat it
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2019, 02:15:05 am »
Personally, I'd be offering a sum somewhat less than $200.  Seller has $249 on the tag.  Too much for an ASM.  They are NOT collector fodder.  $200 is TOP money for that item.  I'd prefer $180 but the seller may not have a sense of humor.  Go for it.  Worst the seller can do is say no.

Not only that, but it appears to me that it was a kit that was merely assembled and blued.

yhs
prof marvel
Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of
Professor Marvel's
Traveling Apothecary
and
Fortune Telling Emporium


Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Powder, Percussion Caps, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods,
and
Picture Postcards

Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions
and
Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
[
Available by Appointment for Lectures on Any Topic

Offline Professor Marvel

  • purveyor of useless items to the gentry
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2284
  • learn from the past, or be doomed to repeat it
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2019, 02:19:07 am »
Hey Perfesser, I've heard of that happening and that is one of the things that a short arbor will allow to happen. Probably a fairly high hardness (brittle) and with no support (bottomed out against the barrel assy), it has space to move to.

Mike

The crystaline grain showing on the ends suggest "extremely brittle" .
I'll have to dig one out of the first ring of hell workshop mess and get a foto posted.

prof (brittle steel can be cured!) marvel
Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of
Professor Marvel's
Traveling Apothecary
and
Fortune Telling Emporium


Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Powder, Percussion Caps, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods,
and
Picture Postcards

Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions
and
Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
[
Available by Appointment for Lectures on Any Topic

Offline ndnchf

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1018
  • Ordnance Sergeant, 3rd Regiment ANV
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2019, 06:58:46 pm »
About 10 or 12 years ago I picked up a used ASM Walker. To my surprise it was a great gun. No problems at all. I got a wild hair and turned it into a "pocket" Walker  ;D

"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

Offline litl rooster

  • Retired Cowboy... with saddle a 94 and the good book
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12579
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2020, 08:10:25 pm »
Personally, I'd be offering a sum somewhat less than $200.  Seller has $249 on the tag.  Too much for an ASM.  They are NOT collector fodder.  $200 is TOP money for that item.  I'd prefer $180 but the seller may not have a sense of humor.  Go for it.  Worst the seller can do is say no.

Remind me not to offer you anything for sale.
Mathew 5.9



Offline Professor Marvel

  • purveyor of useless items to the gentry
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2284
  • learn from the past, or be doomed to repeat it
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2020, 01:00:21 am »
Thanks all, my hobby often seems to be the smith of lost causes. I should look for doable wreaks to salvage!

I only just noticed this...
Saint Kent, the patron saint smith of lost causes

Personally, I'd be offering a sum somewhat less than $200.  Seller has $249 on the tag.  Too much for an ASM.  They are NOT collector fodder.  $200 is TOP money for that item.  I'd prefer $180 but the seller may not have a sense of humor.  Go for it.  Worst the seller can do is say no.
Remind me not to offer you anything for sale.

Ah My Dear Rooster, where's the fun in that?
To Those of us who are cheap barstiches frugal fellows, bargaing is a major hobby all by itself

yhs
prof cheapskate
Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of
Professor Marvel's
Traveling Apothecary
and
Fortune Telling Emporium


Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Powder, Percussion Caps, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods,
and
Picture Postcards

Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions
and
Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
[
Available by Appointment for Lectures on Any Topic

Offline Major 2

  • "Still running against the wind"
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12115
  • Cracker Cow Cavalry
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2020, 04:48:47 am »
"....To Those of us who are cheap barstiches frugal fellows, bargaing is a major hobby all by itself "


WORD !
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Professor Marvel

  • purveyor of useless items to the gentry
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2284
  • learn from the past, or be doomed to repeat it
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2020, 06:21:29 pm »
"....To Those of us who are cheap barstiches frugal fellows, bargaing is a major hobby all by itself "


WORD !

Bargaing? Bargering.  Badgering. Bargargining.

Bargaining!

Damn you autoconnect. Correct where are you when i need you?

Prf mumbles
Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of
Professor Marvel's
Traveling Apothecary
and
Fortune Telling Emporium


Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Powder, Percussion Caps, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods,
and
Picture Postcards

Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions
and
Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
[
Available by Appointment for Lectures on Any Topic

Offline litl rooster

  • Retired Cowboy... with saddle a 94 and the good book
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12579
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2020, 08:19:59 am »
We had a name for it at the horse sale barn... it wasn?t Frugal
Mathew 5.9



Offline riflee

  • Very Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2020, 11:46:02 am »
 I've worked old ASM big guns. Uberti cylinders fit right up. 
I always use a pen light to shine down the barrels to see if the chambers are in line. Even a black cylinder face will shine that way and the shine is the show of misalignment. I call it the "silver moon" of misalignment.  No real biggy unless the chambers don't show all the same. Sometimes a chamber or two are out of wack.

There's ways to work the bolt to move a cylinder into proper battery. Ways to work the bolt window also. Been there done that. Makes fer some satisfaction for a job well done.
Anywho?.. since the guns shoot balls the chambers can be off a bit and still shoot real well. Whittling the forcing cone at the breech wider and longer can direct the ball right into the center of the bore. Never do this with a conical bullet shooter though.  Brownells sells a nice forcing cone reamer at a reasonable cost.

Found out that arbors can get to much carbon when casehardening and get brittle. Best to remove the arbors when casehardening a frame. Even tempering the arbor after casehardening doesn't always work well.  They can be carbonized clean through.

There was someone saying they would like to charcoal blue the parts. There are multiple renditions of what people call charcoal bluing. Which method was mentioned?

Some folks simply cook the metal in a wood fire for hours with the pieces buried in a container of wood and bone charcoal. Parts can come out black or blue.  It's been shown that carbon   steel will turn blue if cooked in a charcoal fire for a period of 3.5 hours at 800 degrees.  A bit of bone charcoal makes fer more carbon dioxide which acts like shielding gas from oxygen.  The best way is to have the parts buried in wood charcoal and a little bone charcoal in a closed but not sealed container with a little paper on top (under the lid).   The paper helps eliminate the oxygen.

Having an oven to hold at 800 degrees is the hard part. Cooling then carding the parts and then reheating in the crucible can help getting the right color and less blemishes. What I know about how Colt did this is bury the parts in red coals and pull them out and card with burlap rags and powdered lime.  I read somewhere that rags with a little fish oil on them were used to rub the parts too. Puts on a coat of carbon.

I did an experiment once long ago and threw pistol barrels and cylinders in a wood fire where some were rubbed with a lime rag and some with a fish oil rag and tossed back on the fire and covered with red coals.  Periodically pulled out and re-rubbed.The fish oiled parts came out "black" and the limed parts turned a slightly grey black mostly black.  I over heated the parts but.....the color was not blemished and they were oiled with a thin oil and left for over two years and even after the oil was gone they did not rust and that finish was durable. I rubbed the parts when they were HOT using the rags and some fireman gloves from when I was a fireman. Leather gloves with clean white cotton over them would be better.  In essence what I did was burn a coating of organic carbon onto/into the low carbon steel the parts.  If I try it again I'll remove the parts more often from the fire so they aren't getting too hot.  I did like the nice ink black the over heating with the fish oil produced. 

Anywhooo? I do like the nitre blue I do with the salts. BEAUTIFUL but  not super durable but  easily redone.  More controllable fer a poor (on a fixed income person) person without a controllable  gunsmith oven. Maybe some day. Helps a lot with casehardening and nitre bluing.  I caseharden cap&ball pistol parts in the crucible(parts in wood and bone charcoal) and a simple wood fire making red hot coals to reach the critical temp of about 1,400 degrees red hot. Fun to do and learning more along the way.

Anywhooo to get back on the subject I would grap that mentioned old ASM Walker and make it a gem of a gun. If it were basically fixable which to me is most anything. I did a ASM Dragoon I got fer $25 and that was me being robbed since the gun was TRASH. Wood screws jammed in the barrel around the wedge....the arbor and frame where there were once threads were drilled and peened and wood screws jammed in. The arbor had no threads and the frame had no thread fer the arbor.  The gun was man handled, chewed on and beat with hammers and drilled to death and the wood grips checkered with a dull screw drive(really) and ruined by monkeys from hell with no brains or mechanical aptitude.

That Dragoon called to me.....Rifle take me home.....Rifle take me home ...I love you...and you love me.... please fix me.....please fix me. It sits in a place of honor next to the TV I use mostly to watch FOX news and cuss a lot.
It was welded on all over and reshaped and refinished and all that with the arbor welded in too with new curly maple grips and Belgian blued parts. All well fit and sturdy and accurized and shoots like a laser beam.

The satisfaction of a job well done is priceless ( if you get the old gun cheap enough). 

Offline wildman1

  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2718
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2020, 12:33:04 pm »
Rifle it is always good to read your posts and your "take" on things. Thanks for coming around once in a while.
wM1
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline Professor Marvel

  • purveyor of useless items to the gentry
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2284
  • learn from the past, or be doomed to repeat it
Re: ASM Walker
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2020, 08:13:09 pm »
Thanks Rifle, great reading!

Yhs
Prf mumbles
Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of
Professor Marvel's
Traveling Apothecary
and
Fortune Telling Emporium


Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Powder, Percussion Caps, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods,
and
Picture Postcards

Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions
and
Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
[
Available by Appointment for Lectures on Any Topic

 

Menu Editor Pro 1.0.2 | Copyright 2014, Matthew Kerle