Author Topic: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question  (Read 490 times)

Offline JustinGr

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?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« on: December 22, 2019, 09:08:35 AM »
Good morning.

I recently acquired a basket case Uberti 73 in 44-40. It was reported to be reassembled wrong by the previous owner and he was frustrated and sold it. So I took a chance on a cheap project.

Upon arrival it had obvious signs of being a Frankenstein. The lever was missing the forward pad that was to depress the safety bar. It was also to small to reach the lever lock. It?s color case, and it?s not been ground on, just does not belong originally on the rifle. The safety bar spring was missing, and the bar flopping around. The extractor has the upper lobe designed to catch the dust cover filed off.

I ordered  a replacement lever from Numrich, and a new extractor. I ordered an upgrade safety spring from Pioneer. When assembled, I have two issues which I believe are related to the toggle links.

1) The breech block won?t close all the way with a round in it. Minus the round, the breech block will close and the toggle links are locked and straight. A rudimentary attempt at headspace measurements, using strips of paper and then using veneers to check show 0.017 without shell. So with a shell in there, there is insufficient space to allow the links to lock.

2) The round in the carrier upon actuating the lever to load hits the stabilizing tip on the bottom of the breech block and stops the upward motion. I assumed timing issues, but if I pull the right side cover, holding the left cover in place, with the round and carrier elevated to the point they are hitting the stabilizing lip, if I use my fingers, and pinch the slight gap between the now compressed toggles, the breech block retracts just enough to allow the face of the breech block to recede into the channel to allow the round and carrier to continue  upwards. This gap between the two toggles when they are in the compressed mode is noticeably present, moves about 1/16? maybe slightly less. But the lever is at full travel.

With the lack of ability to compress the toggles about the same distance the are to long when in lock mode leads me to believe these are to big and not the original to this rifle. The only stamps on them for indication is a number 3, on each toggle.

I can?t find any information on what the measurements should be for these toggles. They are different from an original Winchester, so I can?t use their numbers.

To this end, I have no way of knowing if the breech block and related components are original to this rifle, and have no confidence they are.

So, how do I go about ordering toggle links that will work for my basket case Uberti? I know it?ll cost some coin, but now I?m angry and money be damed. I?m going to figure this out.

It?s my first 1873, and I?m learning as I go, but logic tells me this poor thing has guts and parts from either another rifle or aftermarket parts that don?t work.

Appreciate any help and guidance.

Thanks

Justin.

Offline JustinGr

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2019, 09:26:18 AM »
I?m not sure why all the apostrophe ended up as question marks.

Offline wildman1

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2019, 09:28:53 AM »
Try calling Pioneer Gun Works. They have replacement parts and Joe may be able to help you or at least make some suggestions.
wM1
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2019, 10:19:29 AM »

You have several problems with your '73.  First, your links are too long.  Way back, Uberti used different length of link to address Head Space.  Links with no number on them were standard.  The number 2 were longer links and the number 3 links were really long.  I can't remember ever having seen more than one set of #3s.  Begin by ordering a set of links from VTI Gunparts, Cimarron or Uberti (I don't know where you are)

Optimum headspace is .004 between cartridge head and barrel breach.  Also, the Breach Block (Bolt) must retract fully into the frame before the cartridge passes that little Cartridge guide tab at the bottom of the Breach Block.  With your extra long links, you can not make that happen.  Again, start over with a new set of links.

Offline Abilene

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2019, 11:26:07 AM »
Unless you want to buy short-stroke links, no need to buy new standard links.  Lots of folks have replaced theirs with short-stroke kits, and so lots of standard links in people's desk drawers.  You should be able to pick up a set cheap or maybe even free.  Good luck.

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #5 on: Today at 06:10:35 AM »

Offline wildman1

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2019, 12:02:13 PM »
Never thought of that. I have a set of standard length links I would trade you for the ones you have. Just cost us both the postage. wM1
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline JustinGr

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2019, 02:24:42 PM »
Great info!

Coffinmaker, you confirmed my pedestrian hypothesis. I appreciate your time. As for the timing issue with the carrier, assuming it should be resolved with the proper links, maybe?

wM1, I sent you a message. Thanks for the info and offer.

I appreciate the collective help, it?s more appreciated than I can express.


Thank you

Justin.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2019, 05:28:42 PM »

Well, I wish I had thought of that first.  I changed out hundreds of link sets.  I had so many laying around had to start sending them back with the completed rifle.  I lost count of the number I actually just threw away.  I think I still have several sets, several OEM Carrier Block Arms and If I remember correctly I still have a set of #2 links.  I'll take a look inna shop tomorrow.

I'm sure between us here, we can do an exchange for peanuts (postage).  The shorter length links will change the timing and Breach Block throw.  Won't know if you will need to do more until you get the Head Space corrected.  You can actually live with the Head Space as open as .008 or .009    After .009 ignition can get real iffy.  Really good move using the Pioneer Trigger Safety spring.  It works a treat.  Suggest you polish the contact side of the safety bar. 

Stay in touch.  Glad to help out.

Offline JustinGr

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2019, 06:50:19 PM »
Coffinmaker

Thank you. I am sure I?ll be tossing more $$ at it, the right side spring looks like a dogs dinner, like someone chewed on the arch, no rhyme or reason. I don?t know if the lifter arm is original or also parts from unknown origins. If I can get the headspace figured out, I can get new a lifter and springs.

I also just realized the firing pin has no spring, and the channel in the breech block looks like it?s been wallowed out. So I?ll be ordering a spring. The pin falls all the way inside it.


My bargain on GB turned into a money pit, but it?s fun learning something new. One thing I learned on this journey, you have to hate having sums of money saved to enjoy levers!

Merry Christmas!

Justin

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2019, 10:11:34 AM »

OK!!  Well I'm also certain I have several sets of Lever Side Springs just collecting dust as well as an OEM Carrier Block Arm.  I'll do a quick lookey lookey to be sure.  Watch this Space.

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #10 on: Today at 06:10:35 AM »

Offline JustinGr

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2019, 04:51:28 PM »
Thank you. wildman1 has also stepped up with offers for some parts. So hopefully between you two, I can get this thing running.

I picked up a copy of Gunsmithing of the Old West today, but now told the 2nd was edition is what I needed for the Replicas. Remember what I said about having to hate money to enjoy Lever?s. But if I can find an original 1873 basket case to restore, the Book may be helpful


I am most appreciative of the kindness.


Justin

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2019, 05:33:10 PM »
Just a side comment here since I'm not a participant.  I'm really impressed with the helpful folks that we have here at CAS City.  I don't know anywhere else that near strangers would step in to help each other like this.  To have it happen during Christmas week is even better.  Well done, gents.

And now back to your regular programming.

CC Griff
Manager, WT Ranch--Coal Creek Division

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Offline JustinGr

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Re: ?89 Uberti SRC 44-40 Toggle Link Measurements Question
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2019, 06:05:11 PM »
I agree. The spirit and helpfulness of people on here is incredible. I appreciate the knowledge and their willingness to share and offer help with parts. I?m glad to have found this space and a place to learn.

Thanks

Justin.

 

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