Author Topic: Belgian center-fire Spencers  (Read 808 times)

Offline El Supremo

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Belgian center-fire Spencers
« on: November 08, 2019, 11:13:16 AM »
Hello:

Marcot contains info about Belgian made center-fire Spencers.

I have a question about those original, exported surplus ones that might have been converted to c-fire, please:

Since there are no photo's in Marcot of the Belgian C-F block FACE, can anyone please add what they know about rim-fire Spencers being CONVERTED to center-fire via a "wedge" insert in the upper block FACE?

Thanks,
Kevin Tinny
Oops
El Supremo
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Offline Herbert

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2019, 02:10:16 PM »
Sorry I can not post photos but the Belgian_ Brazilan Spencers were converted by putting a dovetail face in the front of the block,the firing pin is a one piece unit that is held in place by a screw that enters from the bottom of the block spring recess ,this is the best center fire conversion I have seen in my opinion ,very strong  and simple ,have not found out who did the conversions

Offline El Supremo

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2019, 02:59:33 PM »
Fantastic info and so good to hear from you, Herbert:

By my count of center-fire conversions or scratch-built ones either old or modern, this is number TWELVE:
One Belgian, one Brazilian, the quite old one mentioned here this year in another post, Blair Taylor's, two via BACO/S&S, two Romano's, Ken Howell's, Bidwell's and two Taylor's.

If more can be added, please help.

Many thanks. 
All the best.

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
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Offline Herbert

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2019, 05:06:58 PM »
I have been told that some of the US made Spencers bought by Brazil were also converted to center fire,I have never seen one of these but it makes sense to me

Offline treebeard

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 06:36:04 PM »
Has anyone in our group been actively shooting one of the Belgium center fires? Still have seen only pictures.

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #5 on: Today at 08:56:39 PM »

Online Two Flints

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2019, 06:58:59 AM »
Kevin,

If you do a search on SSS - Belgium Spencer - you will get a number of threads started on the Belgium Spencer title.  Don't know if you went this route already.

Here is one link I pulled up -  not sure if it covers your question?

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,30928.msg406285.html#msg406285

There are many others to read.  Just do a search.
 
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Offline El Supremo

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2019, 09:44:41 AM »
Thanks, Two Flints, for the help:

Will SEARCH. 

I see within those posts and photo links, the wedge insert photo and a fascinating photo of the c-f ctg.  Nice.

The interest in c-f blocks arose when a friend shared that two blocks he recently purchased would not fit his original Spencer rifle.  Then I heard about inertia vs non-inertia versions. 

Interesting that post CW, many CW era Second Model Maynards were converted from percussion to center-fire by machining away the top rear quarter of the receiver where the nipple sat and inserting a metal filler in "wedge" shape.  Then they were drilled for the striker.  I have seen these "old" C-F conversions with quite visible wedge parting lines be restored to percussion by a skilled machinist. 

Regards, El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
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Offline El Supremo

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2019, 01:53:44 PM »
Hello:   

Did the SEARCH and saw photo's of both the wedge-faced c-f upper block and an antique c-f ctg. that were helpful.

Am guessing the wedge was for a rim-fire conversion. 
Also, that since the Belgians made complete Spencers in center-fire, THEY produced c-f ctg's.

Have to read more to know if Brazil produced center-fire Spencer ammo. Thanks.

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny



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Offline Herbert

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2019, 02:30:55 PM »
Has anyone in our group been actively shooting one of the Belgium center fires? Still have seen only pictures.
I bought one about 12 months ago it has a very good bore of .510 and a 1in 28 twist,I shoot it with cut down32 ga brass shot shells with 40 t0 45 grs of wanno PP black powder,I have used a diffrent bullets it that were meant for the 56_50 spencer and all shot well but the best was my old 395gr NEI Spencer bullet sized to.516 a bit big but it works so well I have not tried any thing since

Offline Snakeeater

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2019, 11:08:13 AM »
In the closing months of the American Civil War,  Caleb Huse, the Confederacy's purchasing agent in England was tasked with procuring Spencer Rifles, and the British arms manufacturing firm of Greenwood & Batley, whom the Confederacy had procured the machinery for manufacturing the P1853 British Enfield (only part of which had been shipped and received by the South and was installing at the C.S. Armory at Macon, were also friends of the Chenys. And at the very close of the war, G&B offered Colonel Burton who had been the chief of the armories, a job in setting up armories in Europe as the Spencer Repeating Rifle European Agency. Burton was asked by G&B to stop by the Boston office and gave him a letter of introduction to Warren Fisher, then treasurer of SRC. At that time, B&G were looking at setting up armories in Turkey and at Tula in Russia, the latter where Burton was employed by G&B's superintendent. There may be more information on where all the Spencer armories were located in Europe in Burton's papers which are held in Yale University Library. But Greenwood & Batley, with Burton and Huse, might be responsible for these Belgian made Spencers?
First Cousin (Six times removed) to BGen Isaac (Stand Firm) Uwatie,  Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation, 1862-1866

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #10 on: Today at 08:56:39 PM »

Offline Oregon Bill

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2019, 05:32:01 PM »
Snakeeater, I am very impressed with your post! Have a happy new year.

Offline Cap n Redneck

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Re: Belgian center-fire Spencers
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2020, 05:14:00 PM »
Here is a Belgian Spencer carbine coming up for auction in February:
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_A__BELGIAN_COPY_OF_A_SPENCER_LEVER_ACTION_RIFLE_-LOT480096.aspx
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