Author Topic: Spencer Shotgun Project  (Read 4544 times)

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2020, 03:28:56 PM »
Well, two steps forward, one step back.  I fully assembled the gun and it jammed up.  Close examination showed two issues.  1) The magazine follower stuck far enough into the action to jam the block.  2) the shell release on the right side of the receiver (picture) is probably a replacement and is not (and can’t really be) properly fitted.  It allows the shells to stick out into the receiver and jam the receiver as well.  The first issue is a simple fix, I can make a new follower that can not go that far into the receiver.  The second issue is a bit more work.  The best fix would be to make a new shell release out of spring steel.  Not an impossible job, but fiddly.  I have a second Spencer shotgun that has a decent cartridge release but it is slightly different than the one in this gun and I don’t want to take parts from a complete gun, especially since I would have to modify it enough that it would no longer work on the gun it is currently on.   Still working out the best solution, but I think making a couple of new shell releases is in my future.  I will probably make them slightly over size to have spares that I can fit to specific guns... or to have spares when I inevitably screw up the first one I make!

Offline Four Eyes Henry

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 131
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2020, 02:30:54 AM »
I used a piece from a leaf spring of a truck and fitted it, took me a can of elbow grease btw  ;D
Doesn't look like much but I got it working again.
Onetime I will make a proper one  ;)
DWSA #102
SASS  #16042
BDS    #2197

He will come to your house carrying a sixpack of goodwill and joy. The Reverend Horton Heat

http://www.youtube.com/user/foureyeshenry1

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2020, 10:16:09 AM »
Hey, whatever works!  I think I will buy some 5160 and cut the rough profile on the mill, finish it up with a file, and temper it in the kiln/oven I got a while back. 

One of the things I enjoy about this project is getting an understanding of how the gun really works, which is a way of learning about how Christopher Spencer thought.

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2020, 01:06:03 PM »
I made a new shell follower for the magazine so the block moves freely.  I also ordered some 5160 and will be milling it to the rough shape of the shell stop tomorrow, or trying to since 5160 is not easy to machine. 

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2020, 06:32:27 PM »
A couple of shots of the new cartridge stop in the works.  Still a ways to go.  The paper pattern is glued onto the new part as a guide.  I hogged off most of the steel with a mill and an finishing it with a file and my Fordom tool. 

Advertisers

  • Guest
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #25 on: Today at 12:55:57 PM »

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2020, 05:42:03 PM »
The new shell stop in place and functioning.   It operates pretty well but it needs a little more fiddling before it’s flawless and ready to harden.  If you take your time and are careful, there is not much you can’t make with a hacksaw, a file and a drill press (though I cheated and roughed off a lot of material with a mill).   

The thing in the background is my son’s popgun, which needed the grip glued back on.   Lots of gun repairs to be done around my house these days.

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2020, 07:48:37 PM »
Some days you get lucky.  I was looking on EBay the other day and found a good hammer and a complete block with the gate and firing pin from an 1896 Spencer for $49.  Someone had filed on the hammer in the 1890 I am rebuilding.  I did some machining on it to get it to work, but I was looking for a replacement.  The bottom of the block in my 1896 had been cracked (at the bottom of the cartridge lifter).  My dad and I welded it up, but it was not ideal so I can use this block as a replacement.

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2020, 12:44:58 AM »
The kiln where it happened!  In order to heat treat the new shell stop I broke out an electric kiln and pyrometer that I picked up a while back. I heated the part to 1525 degrees F then quenched it in oil.  After that it spent an hour in the kiln at 800 degrees to temper.  It’s now quite hard and a bit stiffer than before, but springy and works fine in the gun.  I cleaned it up after the heat treat and I think I will put it through another hour at 800 degrees to make sure it has a good temper.  I would post a picture of the part but it looks exactly the same as the last picture do here is one of the kiln. 

On another front, I ordered a new 95% stock to replace the original with a broken wrist.  Once it and a repaired original buttplate are fitted, it will be ready to refinish.  I have the blueing option sorted but I still need someone who can color case harden the block, receiver, and trigger guard. 

Offline El Supremo

  • kevintinny@hotmail.com
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 464
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2020, 09:51:51 AM »
Hello:

One source for color case hardening is Turnbull Restorations in New York.
They can do either or both color and harden.  Call FIRST.

My experience with them on at least a dozen guns with various alloy parts has been first- class.

Be sure to ship parts with some form of extra security and signature tracking protection. 
After losing a priceless item in USPS, I am afraid of their service. 

Thanks for all your sharing.
Edited for typo.

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
Pay attention to that soft voice in your head.

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2020, 12:36:10 AM »
Glad you are enjoying the project.  I have had Turnbull do some finish work for me as well.  Lovely work, but pricy.  This  project is more about building a useable Spencer than completing a full restoration.  I admit that I am taking it a bit farther than just a repair.  Only the receiver, block, forearm iron, trigger, mainspring, and a handful of screws from the original gun remain.  The rest of the parts I have made or replaced with originals or, in the case of the stock modern replacements.  I could go with the receiver as is, but I would like to at least re-harden the block.  If I am going to do that, I might as well do the receiver and the other parts.  The rest of the parts are going to get salt blued.  Should look pretty good.  Hopefully it is a shooter as well. 

Advertisers

  • Guest
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #30 on: Today at 12:55:57 PM »

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2020, 11:26:43 AM »
The new stock came in the mail yesterday and I am quite pleased with the wood.  The description said it was a light walnut, which worried me a bit.  But, it is darker than the one they showed photos of and should match the forearm I made for the gun quite well.  I have not had a chance to try fitting it to the frame yet, but it looks oversized, which is good.  The only issue I have is that it is fitted for a buttplate that has a tang at the top, which is not like the plate on my 1896 or 1900 (which are both essentially flat).  I don’t have my Spencer book here so I can’t check to see if the 1882 Spencer’s used this kind of buttplate.  I wrote a note to the supplier to see what plate it is cut for.  They advertise it as fitting the Bannerman gun’s as well so I expected a bit more genetic fit.  If I can’t find the right plate I might have to put a pad on it, which would be less than ideal. 

Offline Coffinmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6449
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 72
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2020, 07:14:34 PM »

Nah.  I'm a Recoil Wimp (card carrying) so I put pads on everything I have.  However:  If you have a good Spencer Butt Plate, I would suggest just filling the relief with a good wood filled Epoxy repair filler.  The only one whom would really notice it would, of course, be you.  That might be less obnoxious that a Pad.  Just a thought or two.

Hide and Watch

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2020, 08:31:12 PM »
Ah... no on the wood filler.  If I cant find one that fits, I will buy a steel plate of the correct size and weld on a piece to make the proper shape.  Not too much trouble.  I’m 6’3” 235lbs and don’t mind recoil that much (not that bp 12ga recoils that much). 

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2020, 03:32:05 PM »
I checked with turnbull about color case hardening the bolt, receiver, and trigger guard.  If it is in the white, final polished, and they have to do nothing but color case harden it they want $500.  Nice work but a bit pricy.  There are some other options out there I will explore. 

Offline El Supremo

  • kevintinny@hotmail.com
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 464
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2020, 04:36:46 PM »
Thanks for the info:

Wow on that quote! 
BUT it IS a little less than similar work he has done for others.
His work is based on an hourly rate
I agree it seems pricey, but his work for me has been great.

Please let us know what you do so we can have an alternative.
I have had Larry Romano do some, but his is traditional pack hardening with a bit less coloration.
Trigger guards are thin and can come out almost frosty white in spots.

Edited 07Jul for fresh info. KT

Thanks,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
Pay attention to that soft voice in your head.

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2020, 05:58:06 PM »
I talked with the stock maker and they told me that the stock was cut to fit an original 1882 Spencer buttplate.  I pointed out that their add said it would fit bannerman gun’s, which takes a different plate, but there you go.  I have been looking for an original plate, but they are thin on the ground.  They were checkered steel (second picture) so I went looking for a similar one and found a good candidate at track of the wolf (first picture).   It is 5 1/4 inches long and 1 5/8 inches wide, which is smaller than the butt of the replacement stock but exactly the size of the plate on the original stock (which has a broken wrist).  It might take a little welding and fitting to fit the inletting of the stock, but that can be done.  I ordered it today.

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2020, 06:03:35 PM »
The new buttplate came from track of the wolf and it looks good.  The checkering was ok, but not too fine so I used a Swiss file to sharpen it all up (figure 1).  The top tang is smaller than the cutout in the stock (figure 2) and the top screw hole  was in an odd place, so I did some welding to fill up the hole and add some material then started to reshape it to fit the stock cutout (Figure 3).  I will get the shaping done and properly fit it to the wood, then fit the stock to the gun.  I am on the middle of a bathroom remodel, so free time to work on this has been scarce.  Nice make some progress. 

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2020, 02:19:11 AM »
I spent a little bit more time with a file and it is looking good enough to start fitting the buttplate to the stock.  It might not look like it, but the original plate casting has been pretty extensively worked over.  All the checkering has been cut with a file, the top screw hole relocated, the top tang built up and reshaped, and almost all of the casting marks have been removed.  I also flattened the plate’s curve by resting it on my heavy bench and pounding on it with a dead-blow hammer so it is now pretty close to the shape of the stock.  From here on in, I will fit it to the wood with stock makers black then mount it with some good screws, maybe some reproduction winchester 1873 ones.  A small project, but it is fun to make progress. 

Offline Roscoe Coles

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • SASS #: 1188
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2020, 11:28:50 PM »
This is the busy time of year for me up here in Alaska.  Lots of fieldwork away from home, so I have not been able to do much on the Spencer project.  Over the last month, I have been finishing up the modification of the steel buttplate and fitted the replacement stock to the action.  It’s turning out pretty well but there is a little more left to do to finalize things.  The stock screws are in and the buttplate is on.  I took my time fitting the wood using stock makers black and it came out well.  The stock was a little large, as it should be but the inletting was slightly off center, which meant there was more wood on one side of the tangs than the other.  Fortunately, there was just enough on the slim side to work.  I am quite pleased with the wood, not least because the grain, including the figure is very similar to the original stock.  Below is a photo of the current state of the stock being sanded to 400 grit.

In other good news, I found a fellow that color cases double gun receivers who will do the bolt, receiver and lower tang for $200.  I have not touched the receiver as I didn’t know if I was actually going to do the color case.  Now that I am, I will clean up some of the pits before sending it off.  I am also thinking about having my monogram engraved on the receiver before the color case, in the fashion of some engraved Spencer’s I have seen.  Looking forward to getting it done, but it won’t happen till the fall. 

Offline Coffinmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6449
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 72
Re: Spencer Shotgun Project
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2020, 10:30:56 AM »


 :)  Eggseptional!!!   ;)

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk

© 1995 - 2020 CAScity.com