Author Topic: Difference between Goex 3F and Swiss 3F  (Read 4467 times)

Offline Doug.38PR

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Difference between Goex 3F and Swiss 3F
« on: August 29, 2019, 10:54:55 pm »
In the past week I have but the above subject to the test using my 1873 Uberti 19 inch carbine in .44-40.  A Lead hardcast 200 gr bullet from Hunter?s Supply,a lubed soft wad behind the bullet and 34 gr (volume) of black powder using starline brass (and a few remington shells too).

My Lyman manual, for comparison, uses the same rifle by Navy Arms.   Their load calls for 31 gr of BP with goex 3F and lists a velocity of 1127 fps.   2F goex lists a velocity of around 1069 fps (I don?t remember the exact number there off the top of my head)

When shooting Swiss 3F the velocity was between 1192-1228 fps. Roughly right around 1200 fps.  Fairly impressive.

When shooting Goex 3F the velocity was between 1042-1115 with all but one under 1100.  (That one was 1115).    Not that impressive.  I then loaded three rounds up to 38 gr of powder to see if a more compressed load would make any difference.  It didn?t.  They were 1043, 1042 and 1075 fps.   A little disappointing.  I was hopeful it would consistently make it over 1100.   The results are more like the lyman 2f goex results

...oh and one other difference: Goex smells like dog poop after it?s been fired




« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 11:26:58 pm by Doug.38PR »

Offline nativeshootist

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Re: Difference between Goex 3F and Swiss 3F
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2019, 09:37:59 pm »
in W44WCF's post on his Black Powder Journey for an authentic .44-44 round like how it was back in the day, he tested Goex as thats what he had and later tried Swiss. He said swiss was more like the powders of the 19th Century and that it didn't take much lube to keep it moist and that it had a slightly higher velocity. He did mention that Goex Olde Eynsford and Swiss did shoot about the same, also OE is a little bit more cheap than Swiss powder.

Offline Doug.38PR

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Re: Difference between Goex 3F and Swiss 3F
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2019, 10:33:03 pm »
in W44WCF's post on his Black Powder Journey for an authentic .44-44 round like how it was back in the day, he tested Goex as thats what he had and later tried Swiss. He said swiss was more like the powders of the 19th Century and that it didn't take much lube to keep it moist and that it had a slightly higher velocity. He did mention that Goex Olde Eynsford and Swiss did shoot about the same, also OE is a little bit more cheap than Swiss powder.

That?s good to know about Old Eynsford.  Funny how Goex claims to be as old as 1802 but they, well, don?t make them like they used to

Offline wildman1

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Re: Difference between Goex 3F and Swiss 3F
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2019, 03:43:22 pm »
The company was Dupont before 1970 and it may be your lube that smells like DS after you shoot it.
I use about 70 lbs of BP a year, Goex, OE, Swiss and Schuetzen. They all smell about the same.
wM1
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: Difference between Goex 3F and Swiss 3F
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2019, 07:22:40 pm »
That?s good to know about Old Eynsford.  Funny how Goex claims to be as old as 1802 but they, well, don?t make them like they used to

 Well they do make blackpowder like they used to. One needs to keep in mind that in the days when blackpowder was all there was each company sold several different types of blackpowder. After smokeless killed off the majority of black powder manufacture, DuPont only produced the one type of powder, there was no more demand for Lightning, Ducking, Electric, Cartridge and KentuckyRifle powders. So what they made was most just an offshoot of the military grade powder.
 Olde Eynsford and Swiss are most likely copies of some of the later varieties of Lightning,Electric and or the Kentucky Rifle powders.
Yes the red can Goex 3f will shoot slower than Swiss 3f, Swiss 2f would be a better comparison.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Doug.38PR

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Re: Difference between Goex 3F and Swiss 3F
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2019, 02:58:08 pm »
UPDATE: Ok.  I just loaded 5 more rounds using the full 40 grains volume of Goex 3F in Remongton RP shells.  One without a wad and four with. 
First shot without wad came out: 1229 fps (wow)
Other four with wads came out: 1107, 1101, 1100, 1061 fps.

Before that i shot five rounds that were all wadded and were with 31 gr.  Averaged 1060-1079. 


So topping off the shell casing with a full measured 40 grains does make at least some difference.  The wad being there or not also seems to make a difference.

Online Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Difference between Goex 3F and Swiss 3F
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2019, 05:32:54 pm »
That is interesting Doug, but WHERE did they go?
Fast is fine accuracy is final is my motto (stolen from some one Wyatt Earp perhaps).
Not to start a fight but if they don't go where you want them it makes little difference how quickly they get there.
I hate to ask you to go to all that hard dirty work loading, shooting, and testing it is a dirty job but some one has to do it and you are the huckleberry. (Just kidding).
Thanks
respectfully
Bunk