Author Topic: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror! (now with pictures)  (Read 2183 times)

Offline Drydock

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I would ask that you please keep me in good thoughts and well wishes, as it appears I am about to fall down a most dark and deep ballistic rabbit hole: IE, seemingly thanks to a favorable Canadian exchange rate, I have just acquired a Russian Berdan II!   :o


(I really need to shut down that $@@*#*()@!! Gunbroker account . . .)


I mean, it could not be worse than the Gras . . . could it?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 08:55:14 pm by Drydock »
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline pony express

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2019, 10:10:06 pm »
You keep buying weird stuff, we'll see you on Full 30 when Ian comes to check out your collection.

Maybe, just MAYBE, there's some kind of brass that will make a truly usable cartridge case for it (unlike the Gras, where nothing really fits, unless you have a lathe to turn little collars to epoxy onto cases for rims)

Offline Major 2

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2019, 05:04:01 am »
I though I liked the weird stuff, I wont even register on your meter  :)
Very cool though

10.67x58mmR

when planets align...do the deal !

Online 1961MJS

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2019, 10:24:31 am »
Hi guys

There's these rounds you may not have heard about that are SUBSTANTIALLY LESS EXPENSIVE to reload:

1. .45-70 Govment
2. .30-06 Springfield
3. .45 ACP
4. .38 Special.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Of course, they're not RARE either.

Later

Mike
GAF #797
Brevet Lieutenant Colonel
Division of Oklahoma

Offline Drydock

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2019, 11:12:44 am »
Unfortunately, I am weird, but cool . . .
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline ira scott

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2019, 02:41:57 pm »
Weird+, Cool?  (Jocularity, Colonel Drydock, Sir!)
It is far better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt!

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2019, 03:20:50 pm »
Will another Turkey Vulture be sacrificed to make a uniform?
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

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The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Niederlander

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2019, 08:59:47 pm »
Is there any common case you can make brass from?  Looks like it could be interesting.
"There go those Nebraskans, and all hell couldn't stop them!"

Offline Drydock

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2019, 09:42:44 pm »
I can see that Buffalo Arms makes it out of Starline .50-110, I'll probably start accumulating some of that.  The original bullets were paper patch, no way I'm fooling with that, so the search will be on for a workable mold.  I'm getting to know Tom at Accurate Molds on a first name basis.

I've also already have enough for a Russian Sailor outfit, though the horizontal stripes make me look fat(ter).  No large fowl need be sacrificed.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 09:46:31 pm by Drydock »
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2019, 09:53:05 pm »
Isn't 44-77 Sharps the same except the Sharps round uses a slightly larger bullet?
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Drydock

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2019, 05:15:27 pm »
Might be able to use that, it would be preferred, as I already have a lot of that for my .43 Spanish Rolling Block.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Major 2

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2019, 10:19:43 am »
Would you post some photos ?  I like follow these projects
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Drydock

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2019, 10:55:43 am »
It is still in Canada, with the check in the mail, I will post as soon as I have it.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Drydock

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2019, 08:44:07 pm »
1st puzzlement: There seemed to be some oddities in cartridge dimensions.  Research has now revealed there were 2 .42 Russian cartridges: a rifle round sharing the same basic case with the .43 Spanish and .44-77.  (I would in fact say that the .42 is the actual parent case) and a Gatling (Gorloff) round using the same bullet, but a longer and larger diameter case.  (nearly 15mm longer!) Perhaps based on a lengthened Gras case.  This would make sense as the Russians were doing a lot of work hand in glove with St Etienne at this time.  I had always though the Gatling round was the same as the rifle, but evidently not.

  It also appears that Buffalo Arms may have mixed the dimensions of these two very different cases!  I won't know for sure until I get the rifle in hand, but I believe .43 Spanish brass will be the way to go here.

(Update: yep, "Cartridges of the World" first mixed up the case dimensions long ago, and it has carried over to the present day.  BTW, Gorloff had NOTHING to do with the rifle cartridge,  the Gatling cartridge was his.)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 08:58:47 pm by Drydock »
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline pony express

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2019, 09:19:32 pm »
Does this round have the super thick "A" base, Like the Mauser and Gras? or a more normal base and rim?

Offline Drydock

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Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Drydock

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2019, 08:48:28 pm »
Update: I have been informed that my check (beg pardon, "cheque") has been exchanged for proper coin of the realm, and that said rifle is proceeding south.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline DeaconKC

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2019, 01:15:32 pm »
Why do I have this weird mental picture of Snidely Whiplash carrying off Natasha from Rocky & Bullwinkle?
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2019, 01:32:08 pm »

Deacon,

Glad I ain't the only one   ;D

Ah, wouldn't Snidely actually have been carrying off Nell ??  Although I am so easily confused.  Boris, Ah Boris,  Where are you Boris!!!  Help ... Help ... Translate to Russian yourself  :P

Offline Drydock

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2019, 04:59:19 pm »
"Fearless Leader is sneaky no good back stabbing evil keeler!  But one day . . . hee'l go to far!"
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Drydock

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror!
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2019, 08:44:56 pm »
Pictures!  Bubba decided that if it could not be blue, it would be all white, so all the finish has been removed, you can see the faint lines of the emory cloth? (Wire wheel?) But at least he made the effort to preserve the markings.  I knew this going in, it looks to be a fine shooter, everything there.  I  might have it rust blued as per a proper armory refurbishment, and steam out some of the dings. The numbers do not match, the best you can ever hope for with these is that the bolt match's itself.  This one does.

The .44-77 case is in fact the proper case, sized in my Lee .43 Spanish Dies, then neck sized in a .44 special die.  The only difference between the .44-77, .43 Spanish, and .42 Russian is the bullet diameter.  .446, .439, .431 respectively.  The .42 is the oldest, and clearly the parent case for all three.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 09:01:25 pm by Drydock »
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline DeaconKC

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror! (now with pictures)
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2019, 10:26:38 pm »
Good luck on the bluing!
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Offline Drydock

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror! (now with pictures)
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2019, 08:43:55 am »
I'll send it to Mark Novak if I do, maybe it will make it on an Anvil or C&Rsenal filming.  I've emailed him to see if he thinks it would be a proper thing to do, we'll see. 
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 08:46:47 am by Drydock »
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline DeaconKC

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror! (now with pictures)
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2019, 09:42:58 am »
I would love to see that! ;D ;D
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Offline Drydock

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Re: Oh the horror! Oh the Russian/Canadian horror! (now with pictures)
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2019, 04:44:44 pm »
Well, loaded up a few rounds, .44-77 brass, 43 Spanish sizing die, neck size in a .44 spl die, Lee universal flare die, 70 grains OE 1.5f, Seat with the 43 Spanish seater, no crimp, using this bullet  http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-360L-D.png 

Got off three rounds, decent group, 6" right, (Front sight is windage adjustable)  Sticky extraction, lots of gunk in the chamber coming out with the case, BUT, there is a developing crack in the wrist, looks to be the sight of an old repair.  This one will go to the back of the safe until I can get Fox in Poland to make a new stock for it, sometime this winter I think.  A nice long term project.

Side note: I also tested a gun show special Uberti #3 Russian I picked up a while back, got it for about half price, as it was "broke".  Firing pin was not contacting the primer.  Removal of one small lawyer mandated part that almost never works ennyways fixed that . . .
Civilize them with a Krag . . .