Author Topic: BP lube with smokeless powder?  (Read 1076 times)

Offline Henryshooter

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BP lube with smokeless powder?
« on: June 19, 2019, 10:02:16 am »
I'm in the process of cleaning out my yearly supply of groundhogs with a Uberti 1860 iron framed Henry, .44-40 using the Accurate 43-215C cast bullet sized .429 and 30 gr of 3F Goex. After usually one shot, I have to clean the barrel. I was thinking of making up some "hunting" cartridges using the same bullet and smokeless powder listed in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Will I have a problem using my usual BP lube with smokeless powder? I try to remember to ask questions before I do something stupid!  Thank you.

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2019, 12:57:19 pm »
After one shot? I usually shoot an entire match (60 rounds) with my 1860  Henry with out cleaning the barrel,. But after about 30 shots I just spritz the lifter with a bit of moose milk. I am shooting .45 CAS cases with 25 grains of GOEX FFFg and a 200 grain Big Lube (shameless plug) bullet lubricated  with a beef tallow and bees wax 50:50 mix.

If you use American Pioneer Powder (ONLY) in any of the  disguises the barrel always stays one shot dirty and regular lube can be used. I have tried it in my 1866 Henry with Chey-Cast 200 grain bullets (another shameless plug) with smokessomewhatless powder lube with no problem. Clean your brass the same way as with Holy Black.
Bunk

Offline Abilene

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2019, 01:16:48 pm »
HenryShooter, yes you can use the BP lube with smokeless with no problem.  Like Bunk, I am wondering how come you need to swab after one shot?  I am not familiar with the bullet you are casting (I don't cast) so I don't know how much lube it carries, but apparently not enough?  I might assume you are shooting the critters at a long distance and so need max accuracy, but still...
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 01:18:27 pm by Abilene »

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2019, 01:37:18 pm »
Up that charge to around 35+ grains of powder and it will burn cleaner.
 As to your question about the bp lube in smokeless, asbsolutely it works and works well.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Yeso Bill

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2019, 02:12:58 pm »
Ranch 13 is right.  On top of that, if you will use a Walter's .030 x .432" veg. wad between the powder and the bullet, I'd bet that it will further lower your SD's and improve accuracy.

I'm shooting 44-40 in an 1860 using the 43-230 Accurate bullet.  (A bigger brother to the 215)   I personally haven't found a smokeless load for the 1860 that can come close to competing with BP.   

Our daily humidity is about 16 and I burn Olde Eynsford III because I believe the fouling is a little softer than Swiss.  With a blow tube, it will usually foul out on the 7th shot. 
(I use SPG for BP & smokeless)

I can't say that I've ever laid eyes on a ground hog.  What is the typical shooting distance? 

Billy

Offline Gus Walker

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2019, 03:30:50 pm »
Only thing i reload with is Black Powder or Trail Boss...SPG  or my homemade beeswax and olive oil work very nicely in 45 Colt and 45-70...
Aye its been quite a ride aint it?

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2019, 05:05:29 pm »

Your original question has been well answered.  I'll pile on anyway.  You can certainly use BP lube with smokeless and the outcome will be harmonious.

I will however, suggest you are trying to use the WRONG bullet.  Your choice of bullet is not carrying enough lube up a 24 inch barrel.  I would direct you to direct you to Springfield Slim's web site.  "MyWytheLeatherworks" and peruse his offerings of "Big Lube" bullets.  ANY of his Big Lube bullets will improve your smile factor.  At the end of the selection of .44s is a bullet listed as "Traditional". Skip it.  Best of luck.

Or, you could also follow my lead and shoot APP in your Henry.  I only have 4 Henry rifles.  All .45s.  I run some odd cartridges .... 44-40-45, 45 Schofield and Cowboy 45 Special.  My rifles run as clean as a 44-40 and I can shoot an entire three day match without much attention to my rifles.  Oh, I anneal my 45 Schofield cases and my Cowboy 45 Special.

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2019, 06:26:33 pm »
I would clarify what CM said about breakfast food. Wheaties may be the breakfast of champions, but malt-o-meal, cream of wheat, or grits (that is a southern thing) will work better. Cheerios are definitely out.
I use ground corn cob dirty tumbler media it works very well.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

Offline Yeso Bill

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2019, 10:24:08 pm »
(Reminder -  ???

 Uh, Coffin, the 43-215 C bullet is a BP - big lube bullet.  It is the one that John Kort designed / used to whack the 300 meter pigs on the U-tube video.  Also:  My Black Powder Journey  - among others here on the forum:  https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,54292.0.html

To all:  It is a good bullet and I have cast / shot many of them.  I personally think the 43-230 is a better bullet for my needs and I am hoping that the 43-245 CG will be even better. 

215 C  http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-215C-D.png
230 E  http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-230E-D.png

While we are off and on the subject, I've been trying to make the 43-245 gas check bullet work, which is an even heavier brother,..... without a lot of luck.  I shot a few loaded with 34.8 OE III in a 7.5" pistol and they ran over the chrony at 998 fps.  That same load in the 60 went 1234 and put 5 in 2.8" at 100 yards.  But that was a good afternoon.   :)

It would seem that the "newer" 1:20 twist should shoot that bullet even better than the 215 or the 230 but so far....hasn't. 

245 CG  http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-245CG-D.png

Billy
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 01:21:40 am by Yeso Bill »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2019, 06:50:52 am »

Sorry.  I'm not necessarily conversant with bullets by mold numbers.  From your results, It sounded as if your bullet wasn't carrying enough lube.  My oopsie.

Offline Henryshooter

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2019, 01:25:45 pm »
Thanks all, folks! My first concern using a soft BP lube with smokeless powder was that somehow I'd lead up the barrel. I leaded up a Mosin-Nagant shooting an undersized bullet and was no fun cleaning that out. Re: the one shot, these woodchucks are usually at 50 yds or less, I'm either shooting from an elevated position out of the cow barn or around the corner of the house. If I miss, they run for the old shed or the tall grass and I don't want to "spray and pray". I don't want to shoot once with BP and put the rifle away dirty for a couple of days, waiting for another opportunity.

Offline Yeso Bill

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2019, 10:14:25 pm »
Henry Shooter,
      I have sized my bullets from .428" through .431" and finally settled on .431".  Actually, I can see no difference in the group sizes.  I have casted / shot 1:40 through 1:20 alloys hunting that elusive "Eureka!" group.  1:40 scatters bullets in my gun (1860) but I can see no difference in group sizes between 1:20, 1:25 and 1:30.

Anyhoo... Absolutely none of the above left the slightest trace of lead in two Uberti's, a 60 & a 66, even with bullets with quite abit of run-out.  The only time I picked up lead slivers on the patches was when I tried out a mixture of wheel-weights and lead.  (That was with the 66)

I firmly believe that as long as you are shooting an alloy soft enough to "bump up", and have the pressure to bump it up, (along with a good barrel) you are safe.

But, I do know what you mean.  I was once loaned an Italian Bisley 45.  Accuracy wasn't very good and quickly went south from there.  That night during cleaning, I discovered it had a .454" bore and I had shot ww 451s in it all afternoon.  You couldn't even see the riflings.  I liked to have never got the lead out of it.   (Some things you never forget)   :(

As they say, your mileage might vary.

Billy     
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 10:28:17 pm by Yeso Bill »

Offline Pappy Myles

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2019, 03:33:31 pm »
HI HS
I've been using SPX for all my lube in cast bullets and smokless.   I have a star sizer and what a pain it is to clean up and change lubes.....So SPX is what I've been using in my pistol caliber bullets
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Offline wildman1

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2019, 06:15:08 pm »
Thanks all, folks! My first concern using a soft BP lube with smokeless powder was that somehow I'd lead up the barrel. I leaded up a Mosin-Nagant shooting an undersized bullet and was no fun cleaning that out. Re: the one shot, these woodchucks are usually at 50 yds or less, I'm either shooting from an elevated position out of the cow barn or around the corner of the house. If I miss, they run for the old shed or the tall grass and I don't want to "spray and pray". I don't want to shoot once with BP and put the rifle away dirty for a couple of days, waiting for another opportunity.
The leading came from an undersized bullet that did not "bump up" to chamber size and allowed gas to escape around the bullet when it was shot. You can shoot an oversized bullet and not lead your barrel because it seals the bore and does not allow gas to escape around the bullet. I have shot a lot of different smokiless powders with bp lube and never had any problem with it.
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Offline Montana Slim

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Re: BP lube with smokeless powder?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2019, 09:45:42 pm »
Obviously the answer is yes on using your BP lubed bullet with smokeless. I've been doing just that for years & have whacked many groundhogs with smokeless & black. Smokeless loads are great for those targets of opportunity without need to clean. I use the BP lube on all my cast bullets.

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