Author Topic: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"  (Read 1018 times)

Offline PJ Hardtack

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"The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« on: June 15, 2019, 06:52:56 pm »
The current issue of BPCN has an article By Harvey Pennington on hunting with the 44-40.  With BP of course ....

But - he used old UMC "balloon head" cases, a risky venture in my opinion. I've been present when a Dominion BP loaded "balloon head" case came apart in a rifle chamber, giving the shooter a face full of gas.

He loaded 36 grs FFg under Lyman 42798 bullets and chronoed them at 1219 FPS.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline greyhawk

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Re: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2019, 07:22:52 am »
The current issue of BPCN has an article By Harvey Pennington on hunting with the 44-40.  With BP of course ....

But - he used old UMC "balloon head" cases, a risky venture in my opinion. I've been present when a Dominion BP loaded "balloon head" case came apart in a rifle chamber, giving the shooter a face full of gas.

He loaded 36 grs FFg under Lyman 42798 bullets and chronoed them at 1219 FPS.
[/quote

I ditched my dominion brass a couple years ago - had some of it since 1967 - never had one break - have had numerous longitudinal splits in modern remington 44/40 brass - back in the day I preferred Dominion over anything else we could get here (winchester Peters, the english stuff)

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2019, 09:08:47 am »
I see no reason why a .44-40 properly loaded would not work nicely on white tail deer. Lots of deer have been harvested (legally?) with a proper placement of a .22 LR rim fire cartridge.
I suspect that in he day meat was made with .44-40 no problem.
A man had one rifle and knew how to use it, ammunition was expensive so shots were taken at a proper range with good bullet placement and one shot, one deer  and we having venison stew for supper.
Yummy
Bunk

Online Coffinmaker

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Re: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2019, 11:09:36 am »

I would find the 44-40 more than adequate for Deer.  They (Deer) aren't particularly thick skinned or particularly dangerous and if you put the bullet where it belongs your going to be enjoying venison.  Most more modern high velocity rounds destroy an awful lot of meat with a miss-placed bullet.

I would not find it necessary to use any of the old Balloon Head cases either.  Modern made solid head cases can be loaded to more than sufficient velocity for hunting to about 150 yards.  Should be all you need.  I don't personally hunt anymore (too old and banged up) but would not feel "under-gunned) with a 44-40.

Also, switching to Smokeless would not extend the 44-40s' effectiveness either.  Within the rounds true effective range, Venison.

Offline Navy Six

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Re: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2019, 03:18:04 pm »
I found it interesting that Pennington used the older Lyman 42798 instead of their newer version 427098. I believe the older version had square bottom grease grooves and the new one has rounded grease grooves. Having grown up reading Elmer Keith. I remember him chastizing the mold makers who did that modification to their designs. Keith always claimed that the square bottom grooves released the lube better.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 03:36:22 pm by Navy Six »
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Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2019, 05:14:01 pm »
My 44-40 bullet is the Lyman 427666/200 RNFP. I believe it has the square bottom grooves you mention.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Online Bryan Austin

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Re: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2019, 09:12:36 pm »
But - he used old UMC "balloon head" cases, a risky venture in my opinion. I've been present when a Dominion BP loaded "balloon head" case came apart in a rifle chamber, giving the shooter a face full of gas.

My Black Powder Testings
I have tested 40gr/w of Swiss FFG black powder with a .18″-.20″ compression with original early semi-balloonhead unheadstamped 1880?s brass and produced 1,373fps @ 14,285psi. Same loads using Goex FFG produced 1,356fps @ 12,648psi. The same loads using Starline Brass with .21″ compression produced only 10,000psi. The same loads used in post 1890?s semi-balloonhead mixed headstamped cases produced 10,500psi.

https://curtisshawk21.wixsite.com/44centerfire/post/early-pressures-vs-modern-pressures

My deer hunt, 2017
https://curtisshawk21.wixsite.com/44centerfire/single-post/2017/12/16/2017-Deer-Hunt
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 09:17:27 pm by Bryan Austin »

Offline Darto

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Re: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2019, 05:42:28 pm »
My take is that when the '76 came out, it still did not sell as well as the '73. So the 44/40 was probably getting  the job done for the farmer taking deer for the winter.

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2019, 08:49:07 pm »
Mav 44 big lubes in regular modern starline brass with 34 grains of 3f Old E chrony at 1325. 2f is somewhere around 1265. I've been meaning to chrony the 43-215C. They are heavier so I'm fairly certain theyll be under 1300 with the 3f but my shoulder tells me they are some pretty serious muzzle energy.

Essentially though the BP 44-40 loads are pretty close out of a rifle to a 44mag from a handgun and I've killed plenty of deer with 44 mag Rugers.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 08:51:40 pm by Cliff Fendley »
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Offline Yeso Bill

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Re: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2019, 02:21:51 am »
I can't find my 43-215 C file but it can easily be pushed over 1300 fps. with Swiss III in Starline brass.

I quickly tried out the 43-230 E and prefer it.  My guns prefer OE III and are most accurate shooting the 230 in the 1250s.  Depending on temperature, 34.0 - 34.5 gr. of OE III will accomplish that. 

It got so dry last summer that I about sucked all the oxygen out of the air blow tubing the Henry.  So, I hate to admit it, but I quit the black.  But don't worry, if it ever rains again and puts some moisture in the air, I'll be making smoke.

In the meantime I've been shooting the 43-245 GC & the 43-252 K with RL7 & H4198.  Those two really smack the 200 M chickies.   ;D

Billy

PS.  I see that last May, 34.6gr. of OE III drove the 43-245 GC 1251.7 fps with an ES. of 23.4, SD of 8.3 and shot all 8 in 2.8" @ 100 yards.  75 degrees, 16 humidity. 
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 03:11:01 am by Yeso Bill »

Online Bryan Austin

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Re: "The 44-40 as a Deer Cartridge"
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2019, 10:42:13 am »
I just did a search and could not find where John Kort chronographed his 43-215C loads. I did find what appears to be 43-210B velocities.


 

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