Author Topic: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!  (Read 10007 times)

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2019, 02:57:35 PM »
My Spencer continues to function well with dummy rds. In fact it's getting smoother the more I operate it.

When I hear back from Chiappa/Italy I'll advise.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline greyhawk

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2019, 03:20:56 PM »
My Spencer continues to function well with dummy rds. In fact it's getting smoother the more I operate it.

When I hear back from Chiappa/Italy I'll advise.

PJ
I reckon you made a wise choice - sending stuff back for minor repairs after they got your money is usually a huge frustration and you end up with a botch repair you coulda done better yourself.
I am working my way through a Chiappa 1886 I got about a month ago - got it almost NIB but second hand from our local dealer -  he had a story (dont they all) - it was about $350 under RRP - I was too keen to get it in my hot little hands and took it home before I checked it out for function - it would not cycle a round from the magazine - external finish was really nice - it shot good - I figured I best fix it myself - we getting there .

Offline Drydock

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2019, 06:00:46 PM »
My Chiappa .50-70 Sharps Carbine has been very good indeed.  Musta sworn off the Chianti that day. . .
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #23 on: Today at 08:00:38 PM »

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2019, 07:58:58 PM »
Well, the latest is that now the action is stuck in the open position.

Haven't addressed that as I was just too fed up and had to walk away before reaching for a ball peen hammer .....
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline greyhawk

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2019, 08:14:24 PM »
Well, the latest is that now the action is stuck in the open position.

Haven't addressed that as I was just too fed up and had to walk away before reaching for a ball peen hammer .....

yeah I know the feeling - gave myself a pat on the back when I got my 86 to feed first try, three shots I got, then a jam up - several of em - on the plus side I am no longer tentative anout dismantling an 1886.  >:(

You have to wonder about company management - if these guns worked as good as they looked ...............
The Bluing is good, case colours are nice, decent quality wood, fit and finish is fine -
 how much more trouble would it be to make the few internal bits the right size and check that the bl00dy thing actually worked before they put it in a box for shipping?????   

Hope you get it sorted.

Offline Abilene

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2019, 11:03:14 PM »
PJ, did it open too far?  I've seen that on some new ones, and I think I've seen mentions of needed mods to fix it on this forum.

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2019, 11:13:58 AM »
Last night I went back to the bench determined to make the *@!%$  thing function. I picked it up and it closed perfectly. Go figure  ...  ::)

I think two factors were at play :

- lead shavings from the repeated cycling of dummy rds

- a loose lever screw

I wonder if some Teflon tape on the threads might better hold it in position? I've also had to tighten the screws that hold the plate that covers the firing pin.

To date this has been an ongoing learning curve and it ain't over yet ....  ;)

I heard from Chiappa/Italy and they thanked me for the info about their designated service/warranty rep in Canada but NOT ONE WORD about the loose barrel issue ....  ::)   I'll pursue the matter with them.

I very much appreciate the support and advice I've had from many on the list, most of whom have had to deal with the same or similar issues in getting their Spencers to function.

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline Trailrider

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2019, 12:29:49 PM »
Modern day prices aside, I've never had a problem with original Spencer's or M1886 Winchesters.  Just sayin'...
Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

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Offline Herbert

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2019, 01:47:17 PM »
Locktight those firing pin slide screws with blue locktight and wile you are there make sure the slide can not travel past the front of the breach block face ,if this happens the slide will hit the barrel face and the slide will crack at the front screw hole

Offline El Supremo

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2019, 01:47:24 PM »
More on the bullet nose gouging issue:

PJ's discovery that dummies with nose gouges, even if the rough edges are filed off and lightly greased, will STILL hang-up, BUT that fresh, ungouged ones cycle fine tells me that there is a short (cycling) life for such lead nosed, dummy ctg's.

I reached the point with 18Bhn alloy bullets in dummy rounds where they were SOOO gouged that I was going to have a friend turn solid ONE-PIECE dummies, including bullet out of BRASS in hopes that the noses wouldn't gouge.

Since fresh 22Bhn linotype bullet noses were ok for my limited test cycling, I never went that route.  

I still do not know how or what contact point makes the gouges, just that LINO helps.

Kevin

Pay attention to that soft voice in your head.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2019, 03:38:52 PM »
Modern day prices aside, I've never had a problem with original Spencer's or M1886 Winchesters.  Just sayin'...

If you like to rub that in a bit more - the same gunshop I got the Chiappa - about three years previous had an original 86 come in (I was there that day - but asleep at the wheel it seems) had I been quick enough 2500 might have got it - they been going up ever since - double at least now ........................

The Chiappa is coming along ok - the work is good experience - keeps me outta the pub .

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2019, 03:59:17 PM »
Locktight those firing pin slide screws with blue locktight and wile you are there make sure the slide can not travel past the front of the breach block face ,if this happens the slide will hit the barrel face and the slide will crack at the front screw hole

I will definitely get some blue Loc Tite for that purpose.

The learning curve with this carbine exceeds that of any other firearm I've ever owned! Part of the process if you want to play with reproduction Civil War era firearms.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline Drydock

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2019, 05:33:34 PM »
The Spencer is a 1st generation repeater.  Despite some of the wonderfulness you may hear about the originals, (which have had over 150 years to smooth out/scrap the bad ones) they were primitive, cantankerous, rackety beasts.  Viewed with wonder only when there was nothing to compare them too.  There is an original in the Missouri state capitol collection that still has a leather shim between the breech and rotating blocks, to prevent over rotation.  (Sound familiar folks?)

Horace Greely once called the US Civil War the "Age of Shoddy"


So just enjoy your living experience of mid 19th century high technology.

I never shoot my Spencer without a screwdriver somewhere on my person, because of those @*$^)#))@#!!! firing pin plate screws.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2019, 06:46:08 PM »
Hickok 45 does a video running a repro Spencer carbine against a Henry.

The open action of the Spencer shows wear on the same firing plate screw as does mine, loose out of the box, or loosened very quickly by cycling dummy rds. The other wear pattern on the block is identical.

His was just as balky if not operated forcefully, the nature of the beast.

BTW - as nice as his example is, mine has better wood and case colours ....  ;D
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline Galen

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2019, 05:26:43 AM »
Then there's a thread from those wanting Krag rifles manufactured by the same artisans.

Offline El Supremo

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2019, 07:46:52 AM »
Hello and thanks, DRYDOCK:

The original in the Missouri State collection is interesting.
Please provide us with more detail on the location of the leather washer. 
There are at least a couple SSS members that have the over-rotation problem that could benefit.

And, for what it may be worth, think about this, please:

The CHIAPPA Spencer RIFLE I handled and photographed at Tayler's last May was serial number 16E04495.

I know of a recently delivered CARBINE with serial number 16F04XXX.

Taylor's indicated to me recently, before I knew of the 16F number, that the factory simply used "assigned blocks of numbers" that do not relate to production variations, etc.

Here are two recent ones, approx. a year apart with serial numbers that would perhaps indicate a few HUNDRED produced. 

Is is even remotely possible that there are that MANY selling? If so, we hear about only a few, here.

Thanks, again, Kevin


Pay attention to that soft voice in your head.

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2019, 11:18:56 AM »
Well, somebody is buying them ......

An individual on Canadian Gun Nutz is selling 16 (SIXTEEN !!!) Spencer rifles in 44-40 on behalf of a widow who inherited them from her late husband's estate. The carbines were sold quickly, but he still has the rifles.

The late owner was the armourer for a re-enactment unit. Beats me why his people didn't buy their own rifles.

I have corresponded with him and informed him that the asking price is too close to retail and unless it comes down to something more reasonable, they will not sell. He agrees with me but is having difficulty convincing the widow.

In the meantime, I have had correspondence with Chiappa/Italy re: my loose barrel and they have not commented other than to suggest I forward it to their Canadian service rep. That will not happen due to the negative customer comments on their web site.

'Sides - the problem has been resolved with Loc Tite.  What I want is an explanation as to how these guns are leaving the factory with such a defect.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline Drydock

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2019, 12:08:28 PM »
The shim is a thin piece of leather/rawhide with a hole in it, for the breechblock post.  It prevents the breechblock from traveling fully into the rotating assembly by just a bit, enough to ensure that the groove in the top of the breechblock mates well with the half circle in the  front end of the trigger plate, when the action is open.  My Chiappa Spencer has a similar shim cut from an old credit card to perform the same function.  That's the only problem mine has given me.  (Thumping fiercely on my wooden desk top)
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Drydock

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2019, 12:16:53 PM »
Oh, they  were hoping Pedersoli would do the Krags, they have a somewhat better reputation.  I have a trapdoor Carbine done by Pedersoli, but shipped in the white to Turnbull for finishing.  (A marvelous piece of dumb luck on my part, wandering into Cherrys one day, during a clearance sale, some 20 years ago) It's been great.  But the Krag is a mere pipe dream, there's no way they could manufacture that beast today for a reasonable price.

It is the curse of the internet, that for every unhappy bitcher, there are thousands of folks perfectly happy with their purchase, with no need to go online to proclaim it.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline El Supremo

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Re: "Take-Apart" Spencer !!!
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2019, 12:25:54 PM »
Tx, Drydock:

Understand. Much appreciated.
The credit card thick plastic shim has worked for some, but not all Chiappa Spencer owners.

And, while we are wondering here about other Chiappa fabrication goof's,
that line in the Spencer Owner's Manual indicating each piece is thoroughally
function tested is a head-shaker.

Somewhere in my past were the admonitions:
"You better know how to swim, because the life jacket was made by the low bidder."
This shouted from "Mike boat" gantries as we swam a mile in the ocean in full flight gear

In another form:
"Close enough for the government -  slip fit, no shake."
This from my friend that built the lunar lander vehicle suspensions - in his Monett, MO garage.

Simply begs the question about what that Chiappa's functioning inspection/testing is;  
of which they seem so proud IN WRITING.  Sorry.

Guess we are all, in one form or another, beta testers.

Respectfully, Kevin


Pay attention to that soft voice in your head.

 

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