Author Topic: Cleanup after shooting with 777  (Read 577 times)

Offline Colt Fanning

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Cleanup after shooting with 777
« on: April 08, 2019, 09:24:01 pm »
Howdy,
What cleaner is best for cleaning up after Shooting with 777.  A water emulsion like Ballistol of a solvent like Butch's Bore Shine?
Thanks
Colt

Online Abilene

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2019, 10:00:05 pm »
I don't shoot too much 777 but I always clean just like Black, with water and/or water/ballistol mix (moosemilk), then lube with straight ballistol.  But clean quickly, especially your brass and any brass parts on the guns.

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2019, 03:06:41 am »
My Good Colt -

"solvents" don't work very well on black powder, pyrodex, or 777. 

Water works very well, followed by the oily treatment of your choice.

Personally I like hot water, with just a dash of dawn dish liquid.
The only point of the dish liquid is that it acts as a wetting agent.

I am cleaning muzzleloaders tho, and mainly percussion revolvers.

I have had good luck with plain oil, light mineral oil, rem oil, etc.
I no longer bother with fancy crap like "bore butters" etc....
but when I can get some I do intend to try Ballistol. After scrubbing with hot water.

If I may I would like to direct your attention to this little monoraph posted by yours truly:

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,56362.0.html

as always, your milage may vary,  the opnions expressed are owned soley by the author and do not express any views
of the forum, the management, the internet, your internet provider, or the rest of the world,


hope this helps,
your humble servant
prof marvel
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 03:08:42 am by Professor Marvel »
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2019, 09:08:52 am »

 8)  An absolutely Marvelous Subject.  Wouldn't you think so Professor??  Specking of the Professor (Psst ..... don't tell him I said so), his wise and learn'd council be spot on   :D

Over the hills and through the woods to Grandmother's house we go  :o   Atz cause Grandmother used nothing but ..... WATER ..... to clean her Hog-leg.  Yep .. just plain old water.  Whom are I to argue with Grandmother!!

Following with the good Professor's example, I don't clean my Cap Guns with any of the fancy Schmancy stuff folks have dreamt up over the years.  Oh, some of it works, but why bother.  It's like going to starbucks and ordering a "Non Fat, Decaff, No Sugar, Skim Milk latte".  Why bother.  I do admit to using PAM.  Not for cleaning.  Just for operational purposes.  In between stages, I wipe down the Barrel Breach, Arbor, Cylinder face and Hammer face with PAM.  A simple concoction of Hydrogen Peroxide, Denatured Alcohol and Murphy's Oil Soap.  Note:  this concoction is only used to keep the gun running for multiple stages.  NOT overall cleaning. :P 

For lubrication, there is no substitute for ...... TA DA ...... Oil!!  A nice non-patrolieum based Oil. I happen to have an affinity for Mobil 1.  I use Mobil 1 heavy grease on initial assembly and Mobil 1 automotive oil for further lubrication.  Works a treat.

Rust prevention.  MUST prevent RUST (Hey Prefesser  ::) at rimed).  Rust prevention is simple.  First make sure the object of your affection is completely DRY after giving it a bath.  Then run and oily patch through the bore and lightly oil everything else except the wood.  DONE   ;D

THE PRECEDING WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE AUSPICES OF "CLEAN GUNS ARE HAPPY GUNS" LLC.  We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming

Offline Colt Fanning

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2019, 09:33:18 am »
Howdy,
Thanks to all for the comments.  I have been cleaning with soap and water followed by ballistol.  I am surprised to learn
from the Professors post that T7 is little different from Pyrodex as I have never experienced the visible corrosion that was so common with pyrodex.  I was under the miss impression the t7 was a nitro cellulose powder and that prompted my my question
regarding cleaning.  T7 does perform more like smokless than black (sharper report and very little fouling).
Thanks
Colt 

Offline Lefty Dude

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2019, 03:37:49 pm »
Simple green & Water, 50-50 mixture. I also use this for cylinder face cleaning & hammer cleaning between stages. Simple ain't it !!!!!

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2019, 07:43:24 pm »
....
I am surprised to learn from the Professors post that T7 is little different from Pyrodex as I have never experienced the visible corrosion that was so common with pyrodex.
....
 I was under the miss impression the t7 was a nitro cellulose powder ....T7 does perform more like smokless than black (sharper report and very little fouling).
Thanks
Colt

Greetings My Good Colt

Black powder is a mechanical mix of potassium nitrate, sulfur, and charcoal only.

Pyrodex is classified as a sodium benzoate substitute for black powder

Here is the original patent formulation of Pyrodex which has been modified slightly but still the primary ingredients are the same:
45 parts of potassium nitrate
9 parts of charcoal
6 parts of sulfur
19 parts of potassium perchlorate
11 parts of sodium benzoate
6 parts of dicyanamide   
1 to 4 parts of water

T7 is a "beefed up" version of Pyro.
They are both BP substitutes, one additive slows them down a little so they pass the regulatory agencies as a non-explosive.
I suspect that is the sodium benzoate

the perchlorates boost performance, but can cause a different sort of corrosion.
both seem to have now omitted the dicyanamide compounds, which may (or may not) have contributed to "corrosiony" issues.

Since Pyrodex has added chlorates (an old time trick used as early as 1800), once fired and combined with moister, it can create  hydrochloric acid.
This acid is the reason Pyrodex can etch stainless barrels. The result is, as more water vapor is thrown into the residue, the worse the problem;
not only because of water-induced rust, but also from acid etching.

note that acid etching is peculiar to Pyrodex, and not Real Black.

The combustion of Pyrodex, T7 or Black Powder comes under the heading of Exothermic Organic Chemical  Reactions.

Such reactions tend to be psychotically complex in the details. One example that comes to mind is the mixing of several no longer available
common household chemicals. There were  multiple stages the mix went through, several directions the mix could take, with strange interim
results that could result in fuming toxic gasses, and  finally end up in an unstable liquid that could make washing machines levitate. 
Old Pharts amongst us may remember this debacle. Youngsters will just have to guess LOL .   :-X

But back to 777 and Pyro:
Most of what we care about is
- how much bang do I get and
- "what is gonna rot my gun" . 

The "gross results" are expanding gasses and "byproducts".

Pyro gives more gasses (bang) than Black.
777 gives more gasses than Pyro

Both Pyro and 777 give somewhat different results from Black with regard to "what is gonna rot my gun" .

The detailed results get complicated. One can count on getting this, that and the other , but exactly
how much and how it affects the gun can vary just with humidity, let alone tempurature &  other "stuff".

And in the case of Pyro and T7 the icky part will be perchlorate salts, hydrochloric acid and sulfuric acid and some other fouling.

Some folk don't seem to get much "icky stuff" , others get  a strange and inexplicable "rust fungus" that seems difficult to kill off.
It may be the  Exothermic Organic Chemical  Reaction is just too complicated for exact identical repeatable results. And, frankly,
most people don't care as long as they can get a good bang and a "not rotted" gun.

pay attention to cleanining, use lots of water, use a good brass brush and don't trust to just "patch cleaning" 

yhs
prof marvel

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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2019, 08:52:53 pm »

Hallelujah Brothers and Sisters.  The Perfesser Speaks Truth, Justice .... and the American Way!!

No wait.  That's too much.  Lets hold it to "Speaks Truth"  Howsome ever, I do feel I can boil the Perfessers kind sharing of knowledge.  Into the Cauldron it goes!!!

The bottom line.  Pyrodex is a RUSTING and CORROSIVE agent that just happens to BURN. 
T7 is not quite so bad as Pyro.  Pyro belly bad .. belly belly bad. Yuck.

Read Professor Marvels dissertation anyway.  It is excellent reading and explains why Pyro is belly bad.  Belly Belly Belly Bad.  Yuck.

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2019, 09:38:05 pm »

Hey Coffin -

just don't throw me in the cauldron too!

BTW can you still get APP or BlackMZ ? the shelf on my local Sportsmans has been bare for some time, e'en tho the
interwebs claim they have it in stock.....

yhs
prof mumbles
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2019, 10:11:19 am »

Perfesser Marvelous   :D

As nearly as can be determined,  APP and Black MZ are both alive and doing quite well.  I have had personal conversation with several individuals whom have taken delivery of both in the past couple of weeks (Myself included).

I would be of the mind, your local Sportsman's has been somewhat remiss in appropriately restocking.  My personal tack would be to arrive with a screenshot and invite the responsible party to kindly order some up for purchase.

On the other hand .... I have ordered in case lots direct from APP.  Excellent results.

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2019, 05:48:02 pm »
My Dear Coffin -

thanks, since I can order thru SportsmansWarehouse and get free delivery to the local store, I will do that.
I can get 10 bottles at $10 each with no deliver or hazmat fees, so....

yhs
prof marvel
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2019, 05:09:49 pm »

Perfesser ....

I'd be jumping on that deal like a Fat Kid onna Twinkie!!  'Cept I already have 30# of APP.

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Cleanup after shooting with 777
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2019, 08:12:39 pm »
Brown just delivered a case total $9.99 a pound hazmat and everything a lot less that real Gun Powder.
That was an on line order because there are no Sportsman's  Warehouse stores in Texas.
I am beginning to like the stuff and my pocket book loves it.
Respectfully submitted
Bunk