Author Topic: Black MZ in 44-40/45lc  (Read 1482 times)

Offline William R. Foster

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Black MZ in 44-40/45lc
« on: November 27, 2018, 02:14:53 am »
Anyone tried it? In my searches it was suggested as a possible alterantive to standard BP, plus as it turns out my LGS keeps it in stock. Regular BP is like hens teeth around me with a 2+ hour drive to TRY and find it. So this intrigues me and MAY lead me down the path to more true blue BP reloading in either 44WCF or 45LC instead of smokless. Figured id ask before i tried it.

Offline Major 2

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Re: Black MZ in 44-40/45lc
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2018, 03:44:38 am »
Black MZ, Shockey's Gold and APP are all product logo name of American Pioneer Powder = APP

I use Shockey's Gold as this was carried by Sportsman's Warehouse before it closed it doors in it's  North Orlando location.
But I managed to buy some of the remaining stock with an imposed store  limit.  ::)

What I understand is the granulations are a bit different , my Shockey's Gold  3 FFF
the one can I have of Black MZ is somewhat courser say 2.5 FFF

The stuff is hydroscopic ( not nearly as bad a Triple 7)  but still you want to clean you guns throughly with soap & water.
Clean your cases too....and I suggect ASAP ...

You need no Lube with APP, SG or MZ ..I'll repeat no lube, it makes is own , that does not mean you can't I suppose , but you need not !

I use SG in my original 73 Winchester 32WCF ,  I like it full case lighty compressed under a Hi Tech coated .311 bullet.


when planets align...do the deal !

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: Black MZ in 44-40/45lc
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2018, 04:46:16 am »
Awesome. Thanks for that info. Especially about NOT needing lube.

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Black MZ in 44-40/45lc
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2018, 06:43:08 am »
I've been using BlackMZ in C45S, 44WCF, 38WCF, 32-20,38 Special for some three years.  We do Cowboy Action Shooting and I shoot these loads in rifles and handguns. 

I made 3 videos comparing BlackMZ with Grafs Reenactor,  another BlackMZ and Goex FFg and another comparing against Grafs cannon powder. Here is one.

https://youtu.be/O9KqK1laIpw.

I love the stuff but nearly no flames.

Two important things;

As Major 2 said, it draws moisture like a sponge.  In can it will clump up. I shake can and then funnel it into the powder measure to catch any clumps. Never let powder set in powder measure.  Return to bottle ASAP and clean up measure and powder drop die,  etc. Loaded in ammo is no problem. 

BlackMZ is considerably more powerful than real black powder.  The charge in video are just a little over half the charge of the comparison black loads and you can see by the recoil they are at least equally stout as full case black powder loads. I sure wouldn't recommend using it in antique guns. 

Other benefits,   

You don't need any lube on bullets.  I just cast and size my own bullets.  Guns stay much cleaner. 

I haven't checked in a while but Sportsmans Warehouse has had it for $9.99/lb.   Even with shipping and hazmat fees, and with reduced charge weight,  it is still the most economical way to go.

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: Black MZ in 44-40/45lc
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 07:02:30 am »
I actually believe i stumbled on your videos after posting this. Hahaha.

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Black MZ in 44-40/45lc
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2018, 09:53:09 am »
I actually believe i stumbled on your videos after posting this. Hahaha.

I hope you enjoyed my videos and maybe got some information from them.   

My secondary purpose of the series of tests were to find out why I was not getting in significant flame from the BlackMZ loads. I get plenty of smoke even with the reduced charges.   But I still didn't get that much flame from real black powder loads. 

Offline Dave T

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Re: Black MZ in 44-40/45lc
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2018, 01:21:07 pm »
When I first tried Black MZ in the 45 Colt I was disappointed in the Extreme Spread shown by my chronograph. So, I went to the trouble and considerable expense to order some real BP over the internet.

I have USFA single actions and they are known for their quality and close tolerances. That proved to be a problem with real BP. Before I got through the second cylinder of BP loads in my 4-3/4" USFA the cylinder started binding from the fouling. By the 10th round I could not force it to index for the last shot with just thumb pressure on the hammer. Had to help turn the cylinder by hand.

Went back to Black MZ because of it's reduced and softer fouling. I've managed to fire 40-50 rounds through two of my USFAs without a problem and the tightest (the 4-3/4") went through 25 rounds recently with nary a hitch.

For the kind of recreational shooting I do (to old and busted up to compete anymore) the Black MZ is just fine. I can buy it at Sportsman's Warehouse, a 5-10 minute drive from here, for $9.99/lb and they stock it all the time.

I need to find someone who want's some BP! (smile)

Dave

Offline Bunk

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Re: Black MZ in 44-40/45lc
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2018, 03:25:51 pm »
On the good advice of Coffinmaker I tried some FFFg Jim Shokey’s Gold in my .44-40 cases expanded to .45Colt which has done a capitol job of stopping .45 Colt blowback in my ’66 Yellow Boy.
I use about 14 grains (weighed) which works out to about a 1.3 c/c Lee dipper level full and topped with filler to the base of the bullet. Top the whole thing with a 180 grain RNFP bullet and a good roll crimp. The same load would work in a .45Colt I have no doubt.

Fortunately, JSG which. by the way, is another label for APP does not require any lube, but to double down I use cast bullets with a smokeless petroleum lube which is compatible with APP fouling.

Cleanup for gun is the same as with BP. Patches wet with moose milk does a good quick job.
The brass is just washed with hot water and a dab of detergent , rinsed  with clear water then soaked with clear water and a healthy dose of white vinegar while the guns are cleaned.

My experience is limited to about three pounds of Jim Shokey’s Gold and a pound of Black MZ so I do not claim to be an expert. Which has been explained to me is an ex is a has been and a spurt is a drip under pressure.
It is a load that works for me in SASS shooting. I have no clue as to velocity but it does hit the target as long as I point the gun in the proper direction.
MAKE SMOKE
Bunk

Offline Missouri Ruffian

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Re: Black MZ in 44-40/45lc
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2018, 08:48:55 pm »
If you like Black MZ (and I do) then you'd better buy all you can because it's not being distributed anymore.  Read a recent internet article a few ago how it was no longer availabe.  I wanted to assure myself of the facts, because we know how reliable things are we read on the internet, so I called Alliant.  After being bounced around three different groups I got to a guy who quicked replied it's not.  He said their supplier went out of business, but Sportsman's Warehouse purchased a large supply.  I promptly went out and stocked up with a dozen more bottles. 

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: Black MZ in 44-40/45lc
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2018, 10:21:47 pm »
Good to know. Ill see how much my LGS has in stock next time im there. Still deciding on if i want to go the BP sub route or smokeless.