Author Topic: Cowboy vs Regular Dies  (Read 3781 times)

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Cowboy vs Regular Dies
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2018, 08:05:57 am »

Well ...... HI CLIFF   ;D

I do have an additional.  Nothing to do with RCBS Cowboy Dies though.  Just loading and reloading 44-40 and 38-40.  Lever Lustrum ago when I actually shot Dash Calibers, I found for MY own experience, using the combo dies, that seat and crimp in one pass of the ram were a quick path to disaster.  Buckled and crushed bunches of cases.  Switched to separate Seating and Crimping dies and those problems went away.

I must confess, I no longer shoot, load nor reload Dash Calibers.  I do however, use a pile of 44-40 cases in my 45 Colt chambered guns.  Seat 452 bullets innem to eliminate Blow-By.  So, again, this missive actually contains no additional goodies for the OP, thus I won't feel bad if the OP skips these little tie bits.  Anyone else trying to mitigate blow-by in the 45 is welcome to read my little tidbit.  Oh, I do however, recommend running your 44-40 cases through your 45 Colt dies BEFORE trying to seat a 452 projectile.   :o

Offline Roscoe

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Re: Cowboy vs Regular Dies
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2018, 08:07:56 am »
Are you saying I don't have experience loading 44-40 considering I load thousands of them every year?

The brass cases my wife is currently shooting are on their 9th loading, yes I keep my brass in lots and keep track of how many times they've been loaded.

Most of mine are loaded on a dillon but I've also got an extra set of 44-40 RCBS Cowboy dies when I want to load hunting rounds or some long range black powder on a single stage. I don't use any special expander die just the one that comes with the set and I always load .429 or .430 with those and never recall buckling a case with those dies. The trick is to seat and then crimp on a separate operation, I believe that is when people have problems with buckling the cases and the ONLY time I ever remember buckling a 44-40 case back when I first started loading them and learned real quick it needed to be done in a separate operation.
What is the diameter of each expander, Dillon and RCBS Cowboy? I know the Cowboy can use either the 44-40 or 44 Special/Magnum plug, depending on the bullet.

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Cowboy vs Regular Dies
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2018, 08:49:59 am »
What is the diameter of each expander, Dillon and RCBS Cowboy? I know the Cowboy can use either the 44-40 or 44 Special/Magnum plug, depending on the bullet.

I use the expander plug for the 44mag on the dillon but I don't know on the RCBS Cowboy dies, I just use the expander plug that came with them and can't tell the difference. I may have to adjust the bell a bit by running it up and down but I regularly load .429 and .430 bullets and even some .427 for a couple original Winchesters that like those.

In other words the dillon is set up for running CAS rounds in Uberti rifles but I use the Cowboy dies on single stage to load specific ammo for several various guns and/or applications and they work for any of the bullet sizes. 44-40 brass is so thin the larger bullet will expand it slightly. You run into trouble crimping them not seating the bullet.
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Offline Roscoe

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Re: Cowboy vs Regular Dies
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2018, 07:53:34 pm »
I use the expander plug for the 44mag on the dillon but I don't know on the RCBS Cowboy dies, I just use the expander plug that came with them and can't tell the difference. I may have to adjust the bell a bit by running it up and down but I regularly load .429 and .430 bullets and even some .427 for a couple original Winchesters that like those.

In other words the dillon is set up for running CAS rounds in Uberti rifles but I use the Cowboy dies on single stage to load specific ammo for several various guns and/or applications and they work for any of the bullet sizes. 44-40 brass is so thin the larger bullet will expand it slightly. You run into trouble crimping them not seating the bullet.
You return to the issue of expander size. You have your experience, but I had cases collapsing when trying to stuff a .430 bullet into a case expanded with a .427-8 plug. The .430 plug from the 44 Special/Magnum die set solved the problem.

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Cowboy vs Regular Dies
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2018, 11:04:49 pm »
You return to the issue of expander size. You have your experience, but I had cases collapsing when trying to stuff a .430 bullet into a case expanded with a .427-8 plug. The .430 plug from the 44 Special/Magnum die set solved the problem.

I have not had that issue using whatever plug comes with the Cowboy dies, as I said I do use the 44 mag one in the dillon powder die because I had the choice but never bothered changing the RCBS because it works fine anyway.
http://www.fendleyknives.com/

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Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: Cowboy vs Regular Dies
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2018, 12:09:30 am »
I've loaded thousands of 44WCF rounds with .429 bullets using standard Lee dies. I don't recall ever crumpling a case while seating bullets except when I was careless and didn't center them in the case mouth.  I've ruined a number by trying to seat and crimp in one motion, though, as previously mentioned. I mainly use a Redding T7 turret press.  I mount the sizing and belling dies together, running each case into first, then turning the turret to run it into the second. I then prime with a separate hand tool.  After I charge the cases, I mount the seating die (set to seat the bullet and straighten the case mouth) and a Lee factory crimp die in the press and use the same process to finish the job. Just my method--there are others.

CC Griff
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Offline Bunk

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Re: Cowboy vs Regular Dies
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2018, 02:46:07 pm »
Hi Gang,
If you are using Star Line new .44-40 brass you must run it through a sizing die to form the neck.
That brand new brass has a straight sided case and may be sized to .44-40 or, as I do, expanded to .451 to use in my .45 Colt rifle and stop blow back. I tried using a couple of range pick up .44-40 cases and they simple split.
Any way that is my experience
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

Offline Roscoe

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Re: Cowboy vs Regular Dies
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2018, 05:08:26 pm »
Hi Gang,
If you are using Star Line new .44-40 brass you must run it through a sizing die to form the neck.
That brand new brass has a straight sided case and may be sized to .44-40 or, as I do, expanded to .451 to use in my .45 Colt rifle and stop blow back. I tried using a couple of range pick up .44-40 cases and they simple split.
Any way that is my experience
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk
Re new brass, "you must run it through a sizing die" is too imperative, because my loading of new Starline brass goes better if I don't size. Works fine. My gun doesn't require sizing of new brass when they drop nicely into a max cartridge gauge right out of the bag. The shape is still going to be different regardless after fire forming. I need to expand for a .430 bullet, so sizing just over works the brass.

 

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