Author Topic: 45 Colt with pep.  (Read 4402 times)

Offline William R. Foster

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45 Colt with pep.
« on: October 09, 2018, 05:28:52 pm »
Hey all, im trying to come up with a general starting load for both a 5.5” SAA clone and 73 clone. I know 45lc wasnt an original 73 chambering, but it is what it is. That being said, id like to load a round with a little more pep behind it than the standard cowboy rounds that way i get a bit more out of the rifle. Im a fan of one load for both to keep it simple. Ideally id like to be around the 900-950fps mark with a 200gr LRN/FP. The suggestion from cimarron was to not exceed SAAMI spec on the SAA. So thats where im at. Anyone loading something similar with verified chrono readings?

Thanks

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2018, 05:34:37 pm »
 With powders such as unique and similar you'll gain around 100-150 fps when those rounds are fired from a rifle, powders slower than unique, such as bludot and 2400 will gain 200 fps or so.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2018, 05:44:34 pm »
Thanks. I had been looking at different powders. Had been leaning toward titegroup or trail boss. Maybe clays. Will look up the info from red/blue dot as well.

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2018, 05:52:22 pm »
Bludot is a very good powder for the 45 colt and the 38 and 44wcf, if one chooses not to use real powder in those cartridges.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2018, 06:01:19 pm »
Looks like the only load data alliant has for blue dot puts me over SAAMI spec. They also dont show a load for 200gr.

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2018, 06:36:25 pm »
Note- im basing the choice of 200gr off the fact that the cowboy loads available are 200gr. As this will be mostly for hunting and minimal chance of 2 legged varmit control on an extremely bad day, im considering going to a heavier 230-250gr round. Not sure what weight grain is “authentic”.

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2018, 07:23:00 pm »
250 gr bullet is the one that made the 45 colt famous, and keeps it that way.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 07:25:43 pm »
Good to know. If im reading SAAMI correct they state 250gr at 750fps and 250-255 at 900fps. So is that stating that i can keep it in a general range of 750-900fps and be safe within SAAMI spec?

Offline Roscoe

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2018, 08:10:09 pm »
My favorite with a little more snap is with Power Pistol, loaded according to a 2014 Brian Pearce article in Handloader. I use his 8.1 gr with 250 gr RNFP with a rating of 860 fps from a 4 3/4 inch Colt.

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2018, 08:28:26 pm »
I will check that out. My main goal is to have something larger than a pussycat load like the cowboy loads to help boost the effectiveness from ghe rifle, but doesnt exceed the safe ability of the pistol.

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2018, 08:40:51 pm »
Good to know. If im reading SAAMI correct they state 250gr at 750fps and 250-255 at 900fps. So is that stating that i can keep it in a general range of 750-900fps and be safe within SAAMI spec?
It's not the velocity that makes something SAAMI spec, it's the pressure. For instance comparing pressure data of a 250 gr bullet using bludot, the velocity is a couple of hundred  fps faster than a maximum load of trail boss.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2018, 08:48:10 pm »
So how is best to determine if a certain load data will meet within SAAMI spec?

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2018, 08:55:10 pm »
 If it's not listed in the Ruger or TC only section it's most likely a salami spec load.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Bunk

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2018, 09:48:32 pm »
If you want a "peppy" load for the .45 Colt (no such thing as a.45 Long Colt" just try a case of FFFg real Black Gun Powder slightly compressed, not a substitute, and a heavy lead bullet. Heavy meaning something over 230 grains.I think you will find that "peppy"enough.If you want really "peppy" get a 454 Casul full load.
Bunkl

Offline Abilene

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2018, 12:16:45 am »
What Ranch 13 and Bunk said are both correct!   

Load away and have fun.   :)

Offline greyhawk

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2018, 04:21:22 am »
If you want a "peppy" load for the .45 Colt (no such thing as a.45 Long Colt" just try a case of FFFg real Black Gun Powder slightly compressed, not a substitute, and a heavy lead bullet. Heavy meaning something over 230 grains.I think you will find that "peppy"enough.If you want really "peppy" get a 454 Casul full load.
Bunkl


Bunk beat me to it - a full case of FFFg black will do all you want - look and sound more impressive than smokeyless too.

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2018, 01:15:56 pm »
Thanks all. I dont intend to load with BP. Just dont have the heart to deal with the clean up. Years of muzzleloader competition cured me of the desire to clean it up.  Maybe in the future, but for now im sticking with smokeless. I believe my plan based off loading guides a buddy lent me is 9gr of Unique with a 250gr lead round nose at 1.60 OAL.

Offline William R. Foster

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2018, 01:18:28 pm »
I may drop to 8gr and a 1.57OAL for a bit more FPS.

Offline Bunk

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2018, 05:14:43 pm »
Please note that is an 1973 design not a magnum revolver.
Remember Elmer Keith violently dissembled one with black powder. Of course he was using the equivalent of FFFFg powder or finer, and a humongously big heavy bullet but he wound up with a three chamber open top...or so the story goes.
If you want (need) an occasional big boomer get a .454 Casull and load down with .45 Colt cases for fun plinking .
Al least that is my thought I might be wrong.

Bunk

Offline Cholla Hill Tirador

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2018, 09:09:38 pm »
  The original 45 Colt load was a 250 gr. bullet at running 850 - 900 fps out of a revolver length barrel. There are many ways to safely duplicate this load. Brian Pearce of Handloader magazine #291 published almost two dozen of such loads. I've fired several hundred of these loads in a couple of Uberti's and a USFA. My two favorites are 6.5 grs of either Red Dot or 700-X with either the traditional RNFP or a SWC, both weighing 250-252 grs. Some revolvers with a tight B/C gap and/or a longer barrel will get close to 850 fps with only 6.0 grs., while others will require 6.5 grs. Either powder will provide very accurate loads and at 6.5 grs. a fella can load over 1000 rounds with 1 lb. of powder.



 I cast my own bullets, but got some commercial bullets by Missouri Bullet Company in on a deal. They were 250 gr. RNFP and shot very well out of my Uberti Frisco. Were I not a bullet caster, this is probably the bullet I'd use-

 



 Here's a group fired using a cast bullet that duplicates the original and the Red Dot load-

 

 And one with the 700-X load-

 

 These loads using Red Dot or 700-X are going to yield around 1000 fps out of your rifle. If you want more velocity out of the rifle, use a slower burning powder such as Blue Dot, 2400 or 4227.

 Regarding bullet weight for hunting, I personally wouldn't go under 250 grs. because as bullet weight decreases, so does penetration in flesh. A couple of seasons ago I shot a buck and a javelina with the above Bisley 45 Colt and I used a 265 gr. SWC. This year I'm going to use the Frisco and a 288 gr. SWC.

 While we're on the subject of bullets, you're probably aware you're going to have to keep cartridge o.a.l. under 1.6" in order for it to function in your '73 rifle. This limits you to bullets whose length from the crimp groove to the tip of the bullet is not over .31", assuming your brass is the correct length of 1.285". The bullet on the left is a 252 gr. SWC and as one can see, it exceeds usable length while the bullet on the right is a copy of the original 45 Colt bullet and will function through the '73 rifle.



If you're a bullet caster, Lee makes a couple of .45 caliber moulds that cast a 255 gr. SWC (452-252-SWC) and a 255 gr. RNFP (452-255-RF) that will function through your rifle.



Assuming one gets a good mould (which is a crap shoot with Lee), both these bullets are quite accurate, or at least they were in my revolvers.

 One other thing, a subscription to www.loaddata.com will provide you with a plethora of data for the 45 Colt, data from manuals as well as Handloader magazine. Load searches can be sorted by caliber, bullet weight, bullet type, powder brand and/or powder type, and then printed.

 Hope some of this helps.

 CHT

 Almost forgot-

 
Please note that is an 1973 design not a magnum revolver.
Remember Elmer Keith violently dissembled one with black powder. Of course he was using the equivalent of FFFFg powder or finer, and a humongously big heavy bullet but he wound up with a three chamber open top...or so the story goes.
If you want (need) an occasional big boomer get a .454 Casull and load down with .45 Colt cases for fun plinking .
Al least that is my thought I might be wrong.

Bunk

 Depends. Standard's, Uberti's, USFA's and Ruger New Vaquero's are all larger than the original Colt's and have thicker cylinder walls, and by virtue of the fact that three of them are also chambered in 45 ACP whose +P factory loads run upwards of 23,000 psi, they sort of are magnums. But the 1873 rifles are NOT. All that said one can exceed the original load by around 150 fps and still be within SAAMI suggested parameters of 14,000 psi (Handloader #54, #246, #275 and Alliant Reloaders Guide 2008)

 The Keith event to which you refer was detailed in his book Sixguns and he blew the loading gate off of his Colt when a cartridge case gave way. He had ground his black powder down very fine so he could get more in it, but blamed the problem on the old balloon head case that had corroded and weakened from being loaded with black powder.

 
 
 

Offline Drydock

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2018, 03:06:30 pm »
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Roscoe

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2018, 12:10:12 pm »
I commented earlier about my 250 gr load. What I loaded for your 200 gr bullet weight is 8.8 of Unique or 6.2 of Trailboss, both according to data provided by the respective powder companies. That was for a Uberti that was shooting high with 250 grain. I have since had the front sight built up to shoot lower with a conventional sight picture and my 250-255 grain bullet choice and velocity.

Offline Cholla Hill Tirador

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2018, 12:44:15 pm »
I commented earlier about my 250 gr load. What I loaded for your 200 gr bullet weight is 8.8 of Unique or 6.2 of Trailboss, both according to data provided by the respective powder companies. That was for a Uberti that was shooting high with 250 grain. I have since had the front sight built up to shoot lower with a conventional sight picture and my 250-255 grain bullet choice and velocity.

  Who built up your front sight?

Offline Roscoe

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2018, 02:44:39 pm »
  Who built up your front sight?
Longhunter in Amarillo.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 45 Colt with pep.
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2018, 02:50:32 pm »
Just a little confused here.  Just exactly what does your combined overall length have to do with your velocity or pressure or the phase of the moon??

In your particulars, your combined overall length will be completely governed by the length of the Carrier Block in your '73.  You will achieve correct OAL simply by crimping into the crimp groove for any bullets you describe.

For finding a load, other than what are called cowboy loads, READ THE MANUALS.  There exist a plethora of load data well within SAAMI limits for the 45 colt round.  ANY load you find published in reloading manuals are within SAAMI recommendation unless specifically listed for Ruger or TC.  And the data flagged for "Ruger" is intended for the original sized Rugers.  NOT the "New Vaquero"

It's unfortunate you don't wish to deal with the cleanup of BP.  Dealing with the cleanup of BP in cartridge guns is actually easer than dealing with smokeless cleanup.  The difference is simply, you HAVE to cleanup after BP.

All of which brings me to a final thought.  So far, you have found fault with everything suggested.  Which leads me to believe you are either playing Devil's Advocate or your just TROLLING.  Are you just a TROLL??