Author Topic: Are you kidding me?!  (Read 22973 times)

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2018, 08:42:15 PM »
Since they are built within "tolerances", they are certainly not " bank vault " tight (nor would you want them that way) but I wouldn't describe  the as issued revolver  with "loose" and "rattily". I have handled original shooter grade, 1863 produced Armys that weren't "loose" or "rattilly" (save for the plunger possibly, I honestly don't remember). Quite possibly differing opinions of the meaning of "loose" and "rattilly".  -- After posting, I re-read Drydock's last post and see more clearly his meaning of " rattilly " so, moot point.-

  Just for the heck of it, I just checked 3 new in the box cartridge S.A.'s  (a R.M. conversion in 38spl,  '72 Open Top in 45C, and  '58 Remington in 38spl .  All Uberti products).  The Remington had no perceived endshake. None had any rattle. The "arbor" guns haven't been corrected yet  but will end up with .0015"- .002" of endshake.  Maybe Uberti does a better build than a lot of folks want to give them credit for?!

Mike
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Offline yahoody

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2018, 10:59:44 PM »
Helps to remember that the original Colt 1873 was made to shoot BP...and lots of it without cleaning.  Given to a typical trooper likely meant even less cleaning.  That and the documented "camp swaps" where guns were cleaned as a group and reassembled without the original parts.  So no question there was some "flex" in the original guns.  I sure would not call them loose.  If they were loose you couldn't  swap parts and still have functioning guns.  A high quality SAA doesn't work that way. 

Uberti?   Very little hand fitting done today.  Thank goodness!  You can drop in a new cylinder or hammer and have as "perfect" a gun as when you started.  That is a good thing.  Pretty amazing actually.  You can't do that with a current Colt.

Current Uberti and Colt?  I have both and I'd give the nod to Uberti as being a better quality firarm...by a lot.    The Uberti costing between  20 and 25%  of the current Colts makes it a one sided argument to me.  What ever the Uberti looses in cosmetics it makes up for in their ability to shoot POA/POI.   Competition between handguns brands begins and ends with, "do they shoot!" for me.
"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline Cholla Hill Tirador

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2018, 11:51:50 PM »
<snip> 

Uberti?   Very little hand fitting done today.  Thank goodness!  You can drop in a new cylinder or hammer and have as "perfect" a gun as when you started.  That is a good thing.  Pretty amazing actually.  You can't do that with a current Colt.

Current Uberti and Colt?  I have both and I'd give the nod to Uberti as being a better quality firarm...by a lot.    The Uberti costing between  20 and 25%  of the current Colts makes it a one sided argument to me.  What ever the Uberti looses in cosmetics it makes up for in their ability to shoot POA/POI.   Competition between handguns brands begins and ends with, "do they shoot!" for me.

 Funny you should mention that....  I just took possession of a current production (Date code CT) Uberti Flat Top from Dixie Gun Works. It's a 44-40, but I have no interest in that cartridge for a handgun, and intend to order a .44 Special cylinder in a couple of weeks. So to satisfy my primal urge to shoot, I just took the cylinder out of my 2011 production Cimarron Model P, dropped it into the Flat Top and headed out behind the shop with a few dozen rounds of handloads. I was astounded by the accuracy of this revolver...it ties with my USFA as the most accurate revolver I've ever owned, but the target sights and the wide trigger make it much, much easier to shoot.
 




 Don't mean to take the thread down a bunny trail....

 CHT

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #23 on: Today at 11:35:08 PM »

Offline yahoody

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2018, 12:04:57 AM »
Quote from: Cholla
Don't mean to take the thread down a bunny trail....

You didn't.  I know you have a few other Ubertis that shoot just as well (or almost) from prior posts.  But you have stumbled on the USFA and now Standard's secret...very little or no hand fitting required on a updated Uberti CNC program.

For the chit you were giving me the Colt forum good to see you are starting to get what is actually happening.

I too am using a 44 Special cylinder in my Flat Top and that 44-40 cylinder in a 4 3/4" BP frame gun that the 44 Special cylinder came out of.  The cylinder gap on the BP .44wcf Swap gun is now .0015" and the things shoots like a laser with 200 gr bullets and Unique.  The 4 3/4" is so good as a 44wcf  that I lost interest in the Flat Top. 
"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline Cholla Hill Tirador

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2018, 01:25:44 PM »
You didn't.  I know you have a few other Ubertis that shoot just as well (or almost) from prior posts.  But you have stumbled on the USFA and now Standard's secret...very little or no hand fitting required on a updated Uberti CNC program.

For the chit you were giving me the Colt forum good to see you are starting to get what is actually happening.

I too am using a 44 Special cylinder in my Flat Top and that 44-40 cylinder in a 4 3/4" BP frame gun that the 44 Special cylinder came out of.  The cylinder gap on the BP .44wcf Swap gun is now .0015" and the things shoots like a laser with 200 gr bullets and Unique.  The 4 3/4" is so good as a 44wcf  that I lost interest in the Flat Top. 

  I've been aware of the non-need of hand fitting for a long time, that's why I own so many Uberti's. However I have a deep appreciation for craftsmanship and have for years wanted a superbly built, beautiful SA revolver. Before USFA went out, I spent much time on their site planning my eventual purchase. That is why I'm so thrilled that Standard is dipping their toe in the water.

  I was giving you scbidt because of a the nitpicking posts about the Standard's being too much of this or not enough of that. Just be glad there's someone giving the SA business a go!

  CHT

Offline yahoody

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2018, 02:33:11 PM »
A Standard with one piece grips and their required (so they say) sales tax runs over $2000. 100% prepaid, shipped to your FFL

Much as I like the USFA guns I also was well aware of the bs line they had going early on with refinished Ubertis for 4xs their cost just to get a nice cosmetic finish.  I'd suspect the same BS right up till the end.

Now we have Standard building guns on the old USFA mills, even less hand fitting with up dated Uberti based programs and a $2000 price tag.  Give me a break.   That kind of non sense needs to be nit picked.

I aint buying the Koolaid there any more than I did with USFA.   Anyone that does should buy that gun for $2000 and smile  while trying to get their pants back on.   I have every generation of Colt, more than one USA made USFA and more and more Ubertis that cost under $500 delivered to my door.  Most importantly as you know the guns shoot.

And the current Ubertis are every bit of the Colt's or USFA guns as a tool.  When you factor in the price, there is no comparison.  I could have Turnbull  refinish a Uberti and still be money ahead.

The tool steel discussion reminds me of the original MIM discussions on the 1911.  Time alone has proven that much to do about nothing.
"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline Dave T

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2018, 05:02:21 PM »
All very true Yahoody, but some of use just want what we want, and aren't you glad. Wouldn't it be a dull world if everybody wanted or was satisfied with the same thing?

dave

Offline Cholla Hill Tirador

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2018, 10:02:36 PM »
A Standard with one piece grips and their required (so they say) sales tax runs over $2000. 100% prepaid, shipped to your FFL

Much as I like the USFA guns I also was well aware of the bs line they had going early on with refinished Ubertis for 4xs their cost just to get a nice cosmetic finish.  I'd suspect the same BS right up till the end.

Now we have Standard building guns on the old USFA mills, even less hand fitting with up dated Uberti based programs and a $2000 price tag.  Give me a break.   That kind of non sense needs to be nit picked.

I aint buying the Koolaid there any more than I did with USFA.   Anyone that does should buy that gun for $2000 and smile  while trying to get their pants back on.   I have every generation of Colt, more than one USA made USFA and more and more Ubertis that cost under $500 delivered to my door.  Most importantly as you know the guns shoot.

And the current Ubertis are every bit of the Colt's or USFA guns as a tool.  When you factor in the price, there is no comparison.  I could have Turnbull  refinish a Uberti and still be money ahead.

The tool steel discussion reminds me of the original MIM discussions on the 1911.  Time alone has proven that much to do about nothing.

 So, where did you get that Standard is using USFA's CNC equipment and programs??? SURELY you read on their site: 12. Did we acquire another company to do this? No, everything was built new from the ground up. All manufacturing, designing and testing are done in house. Do you have some concrete information that shows Standard is lying???

  You say you're not buying their "Koolaid" any more than you did with USFA, but then you state "I have....more than one USA made USFA....", which leads me to believe you've already ingested Koolaid, more than once by your own admission!

 If you don't like the price of the Standard (which is equal to, or in some cases less than a comparable US-made USFA), then don't buy them. Pretty simple.

  Oh and I agree with you regarding the having Turnbull finish a Uberti for less than the cost of a new Standard, but come on, as much as I LOVE Uberti's, they're still not built to the level of quality as a USFA, and presumably, a Standard. My Uberti Frisco is a tack-driving little hussy, but there's just no comparison to the fit, finish and feel of it and my USFA Rodeo. I have always intended to, and will have my Frisco refinished with CCH and a really good blue job, but I'll essentially be "putting lipstick on a pig" when comparing it to a USFA.

 CHT 

Offline yahoody

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2018, 11:03:30 PM »
Uh hu...…

And all USPFA and USA guns were totally made in the "USA".  Really?  We all know now that wasn't true.  Well everyone but the guy who just bought a $1400 Uberti with a USPSA label.  Pity the fool.

I own USFA guns but I didn't believe the hype then and don't believe the hype now.
It I a wonderful world...everyone gets to spend their money as they see fit and believe what they choose.

I one were to ponder it for a moment, did a couple hundred thousand in CNC milling centers and the Uberti programs to run them really simply disappear in CT's?   USFA was 10 or 12 miles from Conn. Shotgun.   I have been told by reliable sources (ya I know but there ya go)...that is where the machines went.   And no one wonders why the Standard is a Uberti spec'ed clone and not a Colt sized gun?   People really do want to believe it aint true  :)   

Do I care past that...not really.   You are welcome to the last word.
"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline Cholla Hill Tirador

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2018, 08:37:32 AM »
 You are welcome to the last word.

 Naaa....rumors and hearsay.

  CHT

Offline RRio

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2018, 03:24:27 PM »
Uh hu...…

And all USPFA and USA guns were totally made in the "USA".  Really?  We all know now that wasn't true.  Well everyone but the guy who just bought a $1400 Uberti with a USPSA label.  Pity the fool.

I own USFA guns but I didn't believe the hype then and don't believe the hype now.
It I a wonderful world...everyone gets to spend their money as they see fit and believe what they choose.

I one were to ponder it for a moment, did a couple hundred thousand in CNC milling centers and the Uberti programs to run them really simply disappear in CT's?   USFA was 10 or 12 miles from Conn. Shotgun.   I have been told by reliable sources (ya I know but there ya go)...that is where the machines went.   And no one wonders why the Standard is a Uberti spec'ed clone and not a Colt sized gun?   People really do want to believe it aint true  :)   

Do I care past that...not really.   You are welcome to the last word.

As a SAA smith since 1978, I can yell you when it comes to Colt, USFA, Uberti, and Pietta, Take the rollmarks and the finishes off and do a dimension check on them, you would be hard pressed to be able to tell them apart. It's all in the rollmarks and finishes.
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Offline Isom

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2018, 05:13:01 PM »
RRio,
I've always suspected that. Had a discussion (politely  :) with friend of mind the other day, that if you ; taped over the 3 screws and 2 pins(Rugers) and taped over the front of the cyl. pins,(long front-Rugers), put a batch on the table and walked by at 6-8 ft. you'd be hard pressed to tell which was which without maybe ,,,, maybe, staring at them. If you like, and am happy with what you've got, so be it. Just my view.
Isom

Offline yahoody

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2018, 05:20:18 PM »
Quote from: RRio
... I can yell you when it comes to Colt, USFA, Uberti, and Pietta.....you would be hard pressed to be able to tell them apart. It's all in the rollmarks and finishes.

Except for the part where Pietta copied Colt on frame and cylinder size.  USFA ran a CNC program based on the Uberti just as Standard is doing now.

So have to disagree, not just roll marks and finishes.
"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2018, 09:26:56 PM »

Personally care, I do not.  So long as your Light Saber powers up when you hit the switch, everything else is academic.

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2018, 09:47:33 PM »
I have to agree with Yahoody here.  Much more than coincidence that Standard is now reproducing SAA's that exactly image those manufactured by USFA.
You can't change the wind, but you can always change your sails.

Offline yahoody

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2018, 10:11:09 PM »
The Captain is an observant fellow  ;D

Machines, CNC program and even their test targets….
Although I suspect someone inside Standard was sending a very public message with that one  8)  I enjoyed a good laugh seeingthat old target used with the new Standard guns.

The USFA test target below that was included with Standard Mfg #US35.  No one @ Standard seems to be trying very hard if the test targets are being shot at 12 yards.  Among the obvious here, but that kind of stuff sure doesn't help them deny there is no connection to the old USFA.  A test target is just the tip of the iceberg.




 
"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline Cholla Hill Tirador

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2018, 11:28:20 PM »
I have to agree with Yahoody here.  Much more than coincidence that Standard is now reproducing SAA's that exactly image those manufactured by USFA.

 Just as USFA reproduced SA's exactly imaged Uberti's?


 

Offline The Pathfinder

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2018, 10:36:19 AM »
So, is the Standard a clone of a clone? ???

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2018, 10:59:05 AM »

YEEEE GODS.  NO!!  First and foremost, I personally hate the term "CLONE"   Makes my teeth hurt.  Were any of them actually "Clones" they would be exact and they are NOT.  Really really close though.  Really close.

Sometime back (Lustrum or so), Jim Finch (aka Longhunter) was doing a process by which he narrowed the upper section of the Hammer on USFA guns to eliminate and drag in the Hammer Channel.  Appears Standard has incorporated that.  Sometimes I wish I still had my Mill (sigh).  Couple thou off each side of the hammer makes for a super smooth hammer function.  Beyond that little improvement, it's a pretty close copy of USFA.

Betcha tiffin you was wanting a 45 ACP cylinder to optimize for C45S brass a Uberti would mostly drop right in.  Little rubbin-n-buffin.

Oh ...... forgot ...... Replicant.  They be Replicants.  Banish "Clone" from the Lexicon ....... PLEASE!!!!!!

Offline Major 2

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Re: Are you kidding me?!
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2018, 12:33:01 PM »
You heard ?   Donnelly is going to remake the Nagant...…. superb fit & finish ... 







NO ? …………………….neither did I  ;D
when planets align...do the deal !

 

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