Author Topic: 44-40 woes  (Read 3310 times)

Offline Holsterguy

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44-40 woes
« on: May 20, 2018, 06:58:34 AM »
Ok guys, I'm about ready to pull my hair out (what's left of it).
Loading 44-40's. Seems no matter what I try to do, the bullet is seated just a little crooked, thus resulting in a bad crimp.
What I'm using-
In Lee classic turret
1-Rcbs cowboy sizer
2-   " expander
3- Lee 44-40 thru expander(for powder drop)
4-Rcbs cowboy bullet seater
Go to a single stage press to crimp. Was using LFC die, but recently changed to Redding crimp.

Sizing my bullets to .430
Have read that using a Redding competition seating die will result in a perfectly straight bullet, but at almost $80, I'm looking for options.
Right now I'm using Accurate molds 43-215C. This thing makes the purdiest bullets I have ever cast!!
I seem to have the same trouble, no matter what bullet or brass I'm using.
So-what do you guys do to set bullet straight and get a good looking crimp?
Been using the search feature for a few days, but not finding out much.
Thanks in advance!!!

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2018, 07:14:31 AM »
I've taken to sizing the bullets to 427 because Mary has a pair of Uberti Somke Wagons that won't chamber larger bullets.  The 427 bullets seat nicely with RCBS Cowboy dies.   

You may try getting a larger expander plug for a 44 Magnum.  RCBS sales this part separate.

Offline David Battersby

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2018, 07:42:28 AM »
   I load my 44WCF on a Lee Classic Turret also.    My Uberti 1873 has .429 groove diameter and I am loading bullets sized to .4305 (not a misprint) as .431 bullets start to cause chambering trouble.
 I solved the bullet seating trouble you are having by using plain base bullets (not bevel base) and replaced the powder through sizing plug with a plug from a 44 magnum die.   
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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #3 on: Today at 11:14:24 AM »

Offline Holsterguy

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2018, 10:44:25 AM »
David. Is the 44 mag plug for Lee powder thru? Or someone elses?
Thanks

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2018, 11:01:27 AM »
I use LEE dies, with the expander swapped out for the one from the .44RM set. Just like David and Bibbyman.

I use it a bit differently; My standard for my ROMVs and several different rifles is .427. I outside size per normal, then use the .44RM sizer as an "M" die, to just funnel the case mouth a bit. Loading is a bit slower than some may prefer, but I then insert the bullet by hand, then complete with the seating die followed by the collet crimp die.

I never crush a case nor have the bullet being driven into a case.
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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2018, 02:21:23 PM »
Only thing I can think for you to try is a 44 mag expander die for the larger bullets.

I load on a Dillion most of the time and use the 44mag powder funnel when loading .429 and .430 bullets in my bp 44-40 loads however I have used the standard 44-40 RCBS cowboy expanders too with those bullets when loading on a single stage press. I just feel I might get less bullet deformation when using soft allow which is why I use the 44mag powder funnel on the BP loads.

I also use 43-215C bullets a lot along with the Mav44 big lubes and I use RCBS Cowboy sizing and seating dies.
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Offline Roscoe

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2018, 10:11:22 AM »
I would get the RCBS seating insert for flat nose bullets.

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2018, 10:36:54 AM »
I use a slightly different set of tools, but I've never encountered bullets being seated crookedly.  I use a set of Lee dies plus a Lee Factory Crimp Die in a Redding T-7 press.  I don't use the powder-through feature, but it is the same die.  I use the same bullet.  When I seat the bullet, I have the seating die set to just remove the belling to the case, but not crimp.  The bullet is seated so that the case mouth is near the bottom edge of the crimp groove.  I then rotate the turret and crimp with the FCD.  The bullets go in straight and, as long as the cases are all close to the same length, everything works fine.

It is possible that I modified the seating stem on the Lee seating die--I've been using it for a long time and I don't remember.  If I did, it was to keep the stem from making marks on the bullet, not to seat the bullets straight.

That doesn't answer your question or problem, I'm afraid, but it does indicate that I'm not having the same problem with some of the similar equipment...

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Offline cheatin charlie

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2018, 12:08:05 PM »
Check to see that the seating punch is a good match to the bullet nose.  That will control if the bullet is seated straight all else being correct.  If it is not a good fit clean it out real good and use JP Weld to make a good fit.  That will straighten the bullet up before seating into the case.  My opinion is worth what you paid for it.  ::)

Offline Yeso Bill

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2018, 07:01:00 PM »
I've used a Redding Competition die since I started reloading 44-40 a number of years ago and I highly recommend it.  In fact, I shoot a lot at 200 & 300 meters and I am so sold on them that if mine broke, I'd order another die before I loaded another round.  Early on, I checked a lot of the 44-40 ammunition on a Sinclair bullet run out gauge.  I use a .4265 expander to load .430 Accurate 215c, 230 e and 245 c bullets.

My seating stem was concave and I did fill it up with epoxy making it flat.  It seems to me that if the bullet is a flat nose, you are better off seating it from the top of the bullet instead of the sides.  Maybe not but it does even out the over all length. 

Billy

Offline Navy Six

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2018, 04:33:45 PM »
Just pay the 80 bucks for the Redding Competition Seating die and be done with it. The 44-40 necks are very thin and if a bullet is started slightly crooked you run the risk of bulging the neck. Then use the Lee Factory Crimp with the collet and you should be good. You will waste time, money and frustration looking for something as good as that combination. I am also now loading the 43-215-C--sized .428-- with no issues. I use a similar set-up for the 38-40 which supposedly has even thinner necks, and again no issues.
 One thing to consider about the 44-40--they seem to vary slightly in case length depending on manufacturer. That will cause headaches for sure. Father's Day just around the corner--I bet the Redding Die would make a swell gift!!!
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Offline David Battersby

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2018, 06:37:13 AM »
David. Is the 44 mag plug for Lee powder thru? Or someone elses?
Thanks
Sorry for the delay. I have been working some insane hours this week.
I just installed a Lee 44 magnum/special powder through plug in my 44WCF Lee powder through die.

Now something I did to make a custom sizing die.
I took three fired 44WCF cases and made them into "Laps".
I drilled out the primer pockets. Then put a hard steel #10 set screw through the hole and put a nut on to hold it tight. (threads sticking out of the case). I then filled the cases with hard cast alloy. Chucking a case into a cordless drill with some 600 grit lapping compound I slowly worked the lap into my sizing die.  Cleaning the lap and the die often. As the die is harder than the brass I did this three times . Each time lapping until the brass went in as far as normal sizing on a press would insert it. I now have a custom sizing die that barely kisses my brass to stop further expansion and not overworking the brass.
 I did the above because I was having what I considered too many case mouth splits. Sizing the brass down to accept .427 bullets and opening up the brass to accept .431 bullets was the suspected culprit.  As a Lee sizing die is not the most expensive tool in the world I had little risk involved.
 Pleasantly surprised it worked well. There was however an unexpected secondary effect.  The two hundred meter group size of my favorite load shrunk to half its size. I guess I will just have to live with it. ;)
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Offline Holsterguy

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Re: 44-40 woes
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2018, 08:31:04 AM »
Just ordered aLyman m die for 44 mag. I plan to take the stem out and put it in the cowboy die.
Midway had them on sale for 18$, figured it was worth a shot for the price. The second step of the expander opens the neck to 431.
I also will check the seater nose and maybe just go ahead and fill it so it is flat, as the bullet is a flat point.
Thanks for the replies and ideas guys!!

 

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