Author Topic: Project Carlos Gove replica .  (Read 8908 times)

Offline dusty texian

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Project Carlos Gove replica .
« on: May 16, 2018, 03:57:47 PM »
Have wanted a replica Carlos Gove Rolling Block for some time . Parts are starting to come in , an original #1 Remington Rolling Block action a GM heavy oct. barrel .50 cal, will be 50-70 .  Will fabricate most of the small parts myself have the pewter for the fore end tip and some root stock Texas mesquite for stocks .Well its a start will post a few when parts start fitting together . Pic of the rifle I will try to copy , its a Beauty .,,,,DT

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 05:25:21 PM »
Well ya got my attention!!
That is a nice looking piece - gona be fun following this one through........

Offline Black River Smith

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2018, 08:53:25 PM »
Always like the 'Hawken Style Look' of custom - reworked breechloaders.

I think the Sharps 1874 makes a really good looking Hawken patterned rifle.

My RR custom would be like the one on pg 122 - 123 of Rosa's book age of the Gunfighter.  It has the crescent buttstock; the same radius curves at the receiver on both stocks; a schnabel forearm nose; and a round 32in barrel.  I am not sure if it has a cheek piece, because of being a right-sided photo, but mine would.

I am certain your talent will get it done.  Have fun making those parts, like you did on your other gun-working postings.
Black River Smith

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 06:23:52 AM »
Always like the 'Hawken Style Look' of custom - reworked breechloaders.

I think the Sharps 1874 makes a really good looking Hawken patterned rifle.

My RR custom would be like the one on pg 122 - 123 of Rosa's book age of the Gunfighter.  It has the crescent buttstock; the same radius curves at the receiver on both stocks; a schnabel forearm nose; and a round 32in barrel.  I am not sure if it has a cheek piece, because of being a right-sided photo, but mine would.

I am certain your talent will get it done.  Have fun making those parts, like you did on your other gun-working postings.
                                               The part's making has become my favorite part of a project , and I'm glad it is , I have a bad habit of putting off task that I don't care to do  .   I have not seen the pic. of the rifle you describe , sounds basically like the style I will attempt  , a plains rifle . Not sure yet if I will go with the DST , thinking on a single set instead , not trying to make a bench copy of a Gove Rolling Block just a simple sturdy hunting rifle reminiscent of the Carlos Gove style plains rifle . Any input from others will be welcome and appreciated .,,,,DT

Offline ndnchf

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 06:48:21 PM »
Geez Dusty, Yer killin me! Yet another rifle to be envious about. Good on ya!
"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #5 on: Today at 08:39:39 PM »

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2018, 03:59:26 AM »
Geez Dusty, Yer killin me! Yet another rifle to be envious about. Good on ya!
                          If I don't have a rifle project going on I am thinking about one , Dangerous Territory .                        Thought of you when deciding on this Rolling Block build . The caliber choice was a no brainer , the 50/70 is a great hunting round in a Rolling Block . No doubt I will be asking you for load suggestions . I have two moulds now of .50 cal. one is for the 50/95 @ 330 gr. the other is the Lee 50/70 mould @ 450 gr. am looking over Accurate moulds choices to add another . ,,,,,DT

Offline kwilliams1876

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2018, 08:48:21 AM »
Dusty
i have a heavy barrel roller no. 1 sporter i built 12 yrs ago or so. a couple winters back i thought  having a single set trigger would be a cool thing to have. so i embarked on the journey of adding the option. i can tell you that the tolerances/geometry required to make the thing work are tight. many days i would just walk away from the bench. i did persevere and finally after countless hours got the trigger to function correctly. lots of micro tweaking of the involved parts.
best kw

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2018, 12:06:13 PM »
Thanks Kwilliams1876 good first hand info is valuable . and greatly appreciated .  Not sure if I will go with the single set  , the double set , or probably the simple single trigger tuned light and crisp . This will be a simple rugged hunting rifle with the planes rifle style . Beside the cool factor the simple std . trigger would be the best choice for me . What caliber did you choose in your Rolling Block ?,,,,,DT

Offline kwilliams1876

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2018, 04:48:40 PM »
I built mine up in 45-90 cal. actually have 2 in this caliber. did build another one in 50-90 a few years back but its gone.........then their was the 45-70 gemmer hawken style i built, but a friend wanted it more than i so he got it. i always liked how a no. 1 sporter hangs on  my horse and under my leg. they are not a "thick" gun and travel well. your Carlos Gove project is going to be unique and a looker. do you have access to an original to view while building yours?
best kw

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2018, 05:17:40 PM »
Have never had the pleasure of holding an original Carlos Gove Rolling Block in my hand , but I do have some good photographs that I can use for reference . Things  I like about the Rolling Block Sporter it is thin but stout feel, simple and reliable and has an old west look to it . I really like the look of the Gove Rolling Block's even the bulky double set trigger set-up . Thinking of a full buckhorn rear of my own make  and silver blade rocky mnt . front instead of the Gove style rear . And a barrel of about 30".Thanks for your input I may be asking more questions as I go .,,,,,DT

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #10 on: Today at 08:39:39 PM »

Offline Baltimore Ed

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2018, 05:29:13 PM »
I've always thought that the Gemmer Hawkins style of stock were the sharpest looking on an old single shot. Either the Sharps or Rolling Blocks look so classy.
"Give'em hell, Pike"
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Offline dusty texian

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2018, 06:30:28 PM »
I agree Ed , they have a special old west sporting look about them ,,,DT

Offline Black River Smith

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2018, 08:02:51 PM »
Dusty,

If you do want opinions then I will add what I know and think.

30" barrel -  this was the main length on Sharps originals.  And the 50/70 was their main first caliber.  This length according to Sharps will allow the full burn of 70 grains powder.  Any thing less will loss velocity.

Buckhorn rear sight - that is my favorite pattern on this style of rifle.  Even with old eye this sight is easy for me to use.  It is not a target rifle.  My hawken replica has a full buckhorn with just the finest knotch I could make.  I did this just like some originals I saw.

Front sight - all my large octagon barrel single shot rifles have rocky mountain silver blades.  I even put one of my marlin octagon lever rifle with a half buckhorn.  They work with a full buckhorn.  I sight and file my own shape.
Black River Smith

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2018, 12:55:56 AM »
I have always been fascinated by these "conversions"!r

Carlos Gove of Denver, Colorado, specialized in lever conversions of the remington rolling block; and German-born Frank Freund of Cheyenne, Wyoming,  modified Sharps and Ballard rifles, and JP Gemmer took over the Hawken shop in St. Louis modified
Sharps, Spencers, and trapdoors

from
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/American+innovation%3A+frontier+gunsmiths+solved+problems+with+the...-a0179532707

Carlos Gove, born in 1817 in New Hampshire, eventually apprenticed to a gunsmith. He joined the First United States Mounted Rifles in 1837, serving until 1840. Achieving the rank of sergeant, Gove mustered out at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, subsequently staying on with the Indian Department as a gunsmith. Gove eventually settled in Denver in 1860 and switched his business to sporting goods and gunsmithing having found the grocery biz in Denver too cutthroat.

Gove made muzzleloading rifles and shotguns for the local trade employing up to seven people on occasion. As the Civil War raged, he served in various campaigns against the Indians in addition to running his business. In 1865, C. Gove Gun Shop advertised Henry and Spencer rifles, Hawken rifles as well as Colt, Remington and S&W for sale and "guns made to order."

It was the Remington rifle on which he put his particular stamp, advertising it as the "Improved Remington" in 1874. Gove's improvement was the incorporation of an underlever to apply greater leverage seating a cartridge. Few were actually made and surviving specimens sell in the 5-figure range, making them an extremely valuable old West collectible. Most were restocked in a frontier style with a wiping rod underneath the barrel and a wicked crescent buttplate.

Gove's styling is unique and has many hallmarks of a Mountain Man's rifle for use far from hearth and home. His choice of wood, wiping rod, pewter fore-end cap, a lever formed to the shape of a Hawken triggerguard all transform the Rolling Block from a basic, sturdy everyman's rifle to one as individual as the frontiersman who ordered one.

These "crossover" cartridge rifles blend the handiness of the muzzleloader with the convenience of a cartridge arm. The Hawken Shop under JP Gemmer did conversions of Sharps, Trapdoor Springfields and Spencer Repeaters to resemble the storied Hawken rifle. Gove's converted Remington Rolling Blocks and several models of John Marlin's Ballard rifle all featured wiping rods under the barrel, convenient for the ever necessary cleaning arms fired with black powder demand.

yhs
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Offline dusty texian

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2018, 04:38:42 AM »
Dusty,

If you do want opinions then I will add what I know and think.

30" barrel -  this was the main length on Sharps originals.  And the 50/70 was their main first caliber.  This length according to Sharps will allow the full burn of 70 grains powder.  Any thing less will loss velocity.

Buckhorn rear sight - that is my favorite pattern on this style of rifle.  Even with old eye this sight is easy for me to use.  It is not a target rifle.  My hawken replica has a full buckhorn with just the finest knotch I could make.  I did this just like some originals I saw.

Front sight - all my large octagon barrel single shot rifles have rocky mountain silver blades.  I even put one of my marlin octagon lever rifle with a half buckhorn.  They work with a full buckhorn.  I sight and file my own shape.

                BRS Thanks for the input ,   I am with you on all points of your description of a 30" barrel buckhorn rear and rocky mnt. silver front . The 30" barrel ,  like you say gives the 50/70 enough length to use the powder charge but yet still handy and maneuverable  , plenty of room for enough sight radius and the sight's described are quick into action . ,,,,DT

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2018, 04:42:00 AM »
I have always been fascinated by these "conversions"!r

Carlos Gove of Denver, Colorado, specialized in lever conversions of the remington rolling block; and German-born Frank Freund of Cheyenne, Wyoming,  modified Sharps and Ballard rifles, and JP Gemmer took over the Hawken shop in St. Louis modified
Sharps, Spencers, and trapdoors

from
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/American+innovation%3A+frontier+gunsmiths+solved+problems+with+the...-a0179532707

Carlos Gove, born in 1817 in New Hampshire, eventually apprenticed to a gunsmith. He joined the First United States Mounted Rifles in 1837, serving until 1840. Achieving the rank of sergeant, Gove mustered out at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, subsequently staying on with the Indian Department as a gunsmith. Gove eventually settled in Denver in 1860 and switched his business to sporting goods and gunsmithing having found the grocery biz in Denver too cutthroat.

Gove made muzzleloading rifles and shotguns for the local trade employing up to seven people on occasion. As the Civil War raged, he served in various campaigns against the Indians in addition to running his business. In 1865, C. Gove Gun Shop advertised Henry and Spencer rifles, Hawken rifles as well as Colt, Remington and S&W for sale and "guns made to order."

It was the Remington rifle on which he put his particular stamp, advertising it as the "Improved Remington" in 1874. Gove's improvement was the incorporation of an underlever to apply greater leverage seating a cartridge. Few were actually made and surviving specimens sell in the 5-figure range, making them an extremely valuable old West collectible. Most were restocked in a frontier style with a wiping rod underneath the barrel and a wicked crescent buttplate.

Gove's styling is unique and has many hallmarks of a Mountain Man's rifle for use far from hearth and home. His choice of wood, wiping rod, pewter fore-end cap, a lever formed to the shape of a Hawken triggerguard all transform the Rolling Block from a basic, sturdy everyman's rifle to one as individual as the frontiersman who ordered one.

These "crossover" cartridge rifles blend the handiness of the muzzleloader with the convenience of a cartridge arm. The Hawken Shop under JP Gemmer did conversions of Sharps, Trapdoor Springfields and Spencer Repeaters to resemble the storied Hawken rifle. Gove's converted Remington Rolling Blocks and several models of John Marlin's Ballard rifle all featured wiping rods under the barrel, convenient for the ever necessary cleaning arms fired with black powder demand.

yhs
prof marvel

                  As always Professor , very informative ,. Thank you for the link .,,,,,DT

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2018, 04:41:14 PM »
Thanks Dusty -

I meant to ask you last night, but was falling asleep anbd only got the info posted before my head hit the keyboard...

are you planning on an underlever or sidelever modification? If so what style?

yhs
prof marvel



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~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
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Professor Marvel's
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and
Fortune Telling Emporium


Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Powder, Percussion Caps, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods,
and
Picture Postcards

Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions
and
Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
[
Available by Appointment for Lectures on Any Topic

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2018, 05:14:57 PM »
Professor Marvel  at this point I an leaning toward the side lever , but may not alter the action at all  . The under lever is very Gove so to speak , could always add this later on .  Thank You for your interest  and input  . ,,,,,DT

Offline ndnchf

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2018, 06:45:13 PM »
DT - you probably already know this, but the De Haas Single Shot rifle and actions  book has a photo of the single set trigger parts and a nice parts illustration.
"We're all travelers in this world.  From the sweet grass to the packing house, birth till death, we travel between the eternities"  Prentiss Ritter, Broken Trail

Offline dusty texian

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Re: Project Carlos Gove replica .
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2018, 07:00:13 PM »
No Sir I did not , thank you much for the tip , looks like I need invest in some reference books , any suggestions will be appreciated .,,,DT

 

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