Author Topic: Split cases  (Read 527 times)

Offline King Medallion

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Split cases
« on: August 18, 2019, 10:56:47 am »
So this was a 1st for this rifle. I had 5 cases out of 10 that split at the shoulder. The load was 50.0 of IMR 4320. Recoil was not overly excessive, but stout, and didn't seem to indicate any problems. As you can see, accuracy wasn't very good. These were the 1st shots of the day. My rifle has the Uberti chamber, this was I think the 3rd firing of this batch of brass.



Thoughts?

Offline River City John

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2019, 11:05:31 am »
I would suspect breech too long, allowing the cases to stretch too far forward before sealing, thinning the metal at the shoulder to tearing point.

Have gunsmith check head space?

RCJ
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Offline kwilliams1876

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2019, 01:34:55 pm »
If that was a 100 yd group, it looks ok! 50 yd not so much. My brass has not split using 2f black so far. No doubt about Uberti chambers being out of tolerance, some small, some oversize and many are rough. Maybe anneal and don't full length resize the next batch.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2019, 02:49:36 pm »

Hi KM  :)

Your "Uberti" chamber and your loading dies don't match up.  The chamber, in comparison to your dies is too long.  According to the marks on the cases, either your chamber is some rough or your dies are.  I would be want to suspect a poor chamber.  Twer it I, I'd start by annealing the cases and at the same time, your load of 4320 is too hot for your rifle.  I'd be going back to BP.

Offline larryo1

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2019, 05:40:39 pm »
I tried earlier to send my message but somehow it did not get through.  So-- to tell the story again, I tried right off the bat to fire a cartridge and come to find out the chambeer was not like an original so what I did as I have RCBS stuff, I put a new case and a fired case in a box with the dies and sent all to RCBS.  In a short time I got it all back with the dies in proper format for a Uberti chamber.  What I did then was to anneal all the cases and then fire form them all.  I have  never had a split case such as you have  had so maybe I done sumpin right?  My fussy rifle likes either 22 grains of 2400 under a kapok wad or either 72 or 76 grains of Swiss 1?.  The 72 grain load is just as good as the Thumper but less whack on the shoulder.  The 76 grain I got off an original factory box.  Hope this gets through and is of some help.

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2019, 06:12:12 pm »
King:  Is your rifle one of the earlier ones with the oversized (or at least differently sized) chambers?  That would certainly be a factor.

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Offline greyhawk

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2019, 07:16:34 pm »
ouch!!
first off - split cases?  no!  split is lengthways = no big deal most times = usually points to brittle brass

this is a radial separation - way more worse in my opine

got a bunch of questions proly none of which is much help

before the questions tho --CM sez 4320 load is too hot - I've no direct data but my hornady manual puts 50 grain as a soft trapdoor load ina 45/70 wid 350 grain jboolit  so it should be ok here ....... I do agree wid him about go back to black tho .

q
1) dies vs chamber - are you full length resizing ? n if so why ?
2) usin any wads or filler over that smokeless powder?
3) are your fired cases showing extra length (stretching)
4) boolit length was a question but I think I can see on yr target its a 350 grain - should be ok - long soft boolits with their tail hangin down in the case body OR wads below the shoulder OR filler packing into the shoulder in that chamber could be cause this?

major question is what is going on that is pulling the neck of the case forward and causing that separation around the shoulder - dont like it at all - needs figurin out pronto. 

Offline King Medallion

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2019, 08:28:31 pm »
I think it is just a matter of too hard of a powder charge. These were the 1st shots fired for the day, none of my other loads were so stout. The sizing die is the wdx59 whatever, can't think of the name right now and I'm on vacation in South Dakota heading west to Montana and Idaho, so I can't look for a couple weeks. The other dies are Lee. I am not real pleased with the sizing die, as I don't think there is hardly any neck tension on the bullet. I've never annealed before, have no clue as to to how. Guess I better look up youtube, I'm sure there is plenty of how-to video's. Larry's  charge of 22.0 gr of 2400 was a nice load, worked better with a 1/3 peanut filler than a bit of TP. Haven't tried laundry lint yet. Trail Boss turned out to be a great accurate load, see the pic's on the Today's Shoot thread.

Offline kwilliams1876

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2019, 08:46:52 am »
KM
toilet paper? peanut filler? lint?  you are making this way toooo complicated to achieve results. It is a black powder weapon and really good 100 yd results can be had by using it.
Slight compression, card wad, the correct bullet and that's it. No chance of a smokeless double load either. Too bad you were not in Montana in June for the Quigley shoot, they have a lever gun long range match also. I will bet you the top shooters are not fiddling with the funky fillers.
best
kw
montana

Offline King Medallion

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2019, 08:47:56 pm »
Alrighty then.

Offline Montana Slim

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2019, 10:28:10 pm »
I modified a Lee 45-70 FCD for my 45-60. Primary load is with black powder. I don't resize the brass,  just expand the mouth,  add powder,  bullet then FCD.

BTW, this works with smokeless, too. The FCD holds the bullet well.

Firing your brass forces it to fit the chamber. You should get much better case life by not realizing each time.  All the work to make a 45-75 would make me look hard at annealing the brass after forming too.

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Offline Sloan Dodgy

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2019, 04:18:23 pm »
Here's a thought - What sort of brass are you using?  Radial cracks around the shoulder area are pretty rare in my experience, but these are so consistent in location it makes me wonder if that spot matches where the bottom of the 'standard' .45-75 neck would be.  If so, perhaps there is some left over stress there, or a change in case wall thickness that left the brass weak there and so prone to crack.

If your brass is some of the sadly no longer available Jamison (Captech) .45-75 brass, or some other brand of actual fully formed .45-75 brass, that might have something to do with it.

Pretty far fetched, I know, but they crack so consistently in the same spot I can't think of anything else.

Offline larryo1

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Re: Split cases
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2019, 05:13:48 pm »
Sloan Doggy
The only and the first crack that I got was on the case mouth of a 5-90 Sharps case and it was only about a 1/16th of an inch long.  I had forgot to anneal the cases  so figgured that was why that happened so that situation has been remedied.  These cases are for my 45-75 and have been used for a long time and this was the first time this has happened.  I believe that it was basically my fault and not the fault of the cases. I uses whatever is at hand and got 348 cases, Jamison cases, Bertram cases and 50-90 and 50-95 Sharps cases so basically a hodge-podge of different types and makes and like I said, this is/was the first time this happened so have to write it off to my blunder.