Author Topic: .45-75 Winchester brass  (Read 9586 times)

Offline Cimarron

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.45-75 Winchester brass
« on: March 19, 2018, 05:37:51 pm »
If this has been asked you will just have to excuse me.  Who is making .45-75 brass?  I have a couple of hundred rounds from several years ago but thought I would buy some more.  Apparently it is no longer available!  Thanks for any replies.
HOLY BLACK?  YOU MUST BE TALKING ABOUT PENNSYLVANIA ANTHRACITE!

Offline pinto beans

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2018, 05:59:23 pm »
Had the same problem when I first got my Uberti in .45-75, Jamison cartridge was out of sorts then too.  These folks make really nice brass, but it is expensive: http://rockymountaincartridge.com/ I have brass from both companies and like them both.  The RMC brass is thick as it is made on CNC type machines and not pressed.  Have had good luck with it and would not hesitate to order more.  Best of luck with it!!

P.B.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2018, 06:55:44 pm »
Had the same problem when I first got my Uberti in .45-75, Jamison cartridge was out of sorts then too.  These folks make really nice brass, but it is expensive: http://rockymountaincartridge.com/ I have brass from both companies and like them both.  The RMC brass is thick as it is made on CNC type machines and not pressed.  Have had good luck with it and would not hesitate to order more.  Best of luck with it!!

P.B.

Made mine from 348 brass - Jamison was otherwise engaged at the time - it was time consuming but not particularly troublesome - I think I wasted 5 from 150 - thick brass is an issue with blackpowder loads - I reckon I lose about 5 grains space with the 348 stuff - Rocky mountain would likely be more? If Jamison ever makes it again I would like to get some with proper headstamp.   

Offline dusty texian

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2019, 02:53:55 pm »
One thing I have been wondering about , has Uberti 1876 sales dropped off since brass for the rifles has been hard to get at best . Wouldn't it be great if a large company like Uberti would order enough brass for all four cartridge sizes  from another company like Jamison or others and offer them for sale . It may even up the sales of their 1876 rifles if the brass to actually fire the rifle was available . Just a thought .,,,DT

Online King Medallion

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2019, 03:23:42 pm »
Good thought, DT. I think the problem with that is, at this time, what with the fact that no one is making the brass, and there are only a handful of us that show interest in these types of guns, it wouldn't be a wise financial move. This day in age belongs to the black gun. Auto's. There aren't enough of us back woods farm boys left to make it pay. The price of the guns are high enough as is without adding the cost of finding reloading components that are already near non-existent. I've been lucky enough to have found a couple hundred new cases for my rifle to hopefully last my lifetime. But I had to look hard and was at the right place at the right time too. Starline should listen. They make brass for caliber's I've never even heard of, yet won't make what is being asked for. I mean really, who shoots a 44 magnum anyway???

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2019, 03:34:47 pm »
I'm surprised that Starline hasn't stepped up. Enough of us have certainly brougbt it to their attention...

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Offline Buck Stinson

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2019, 07:05:40 pm »
For the past 50 years, I've  made my .45-75 brass, by reforming .348 Win. brass.  Learned this from an old timer who had given me some of his reformed brass decades ago.  I do not own any of the modern reproduction rifles in this caliber.  I've  used this reformed brass only in original .45-75 caliber model 1876 rifles and carbines.  In the dozens of originals I've  owned and shot, I've  never had a failure in firing or extraction.  The .348 brass will not hold 75 grains of 2F black, but it will hold up to 68 grains on a compressed load.  Makes very little difference in the accuracy or killing power, when using the proper 350 grain bullet.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2019, 07:22:07 pm »
For the past 50 years, I've  made my .45-75 brass, by reforming .348 Win. brass.  Learned this from an old timer who had given me some of his reformed brass decades ago.  I do not own any of the modern reproduction rifles in this caliber.  I've  used this reformed brass only in original .45-75 caliber model 1876 rifles and carbines.  In the dozens of originals I've  owned and shot, I've  never had a failure in firing or extraction.  The .348 brass will not hold 75 grains of 2F black, but it will hold up to 68 grains on a compressed load.  Makes very little difference in the accuracy or killing power, when using the proper 350 grain bullet.

Buck
I made my 45/75 brass for my uberti from 348Winchester brass I got on a visit to the US. Bought the brass then ordered the rifle (already had a 348 so it was never going to be a total waste). Am looking for more now - a local dude has 3 bags of 348 advertised - a bit pricey but do able (still waiting on a reply for that to confirm its there) --otherwise Starline is advertising 50/110 winchester which I understand is a base case we can use and might ba a little chaeper------

question is which way would you (and any other fellers too) go with this ---converting the 348 brass was easy and I only lost a few at the start figuring it out - reducing neck size has caused me making cases more pain than expanding em has (303 to 303/25 is a lot of work and I even broke a few making 38/40 from 44/40 --

anybody has made 45/75 from 50 calibre brass please throw yr opinion in on this ?   

Offline pinto beans

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2019, 07:38:24 pm »
I will throw my $.02 in here as well.  Been working at the local gun shop after retirement, one of those bucket list things.  It gives me the chance to talk to all kinds of folks about lots of different guns. King Medallion is right, if it ain't got a plastic stock on it, with the ability to hang everything from flashlights to kitchen sinks off the front there doesn't seem to be much interest.  Funny thing is when you do bring any of the old west guns out there is immediately a crowd asking questions.  Brass availability is serious, the two principle suppliers I knew of are either shut down or in the process of going out of business.  like lots of other folks here, I have let Starline know of the hope they would consider runs of the 76 cartridge brass.  Just doesn't seem to interest them.  Supplies have dried up very quickly after the products went out of production so there seems to be a steady if small demand but as far as I have seen no interest in any new suppliers.  Like most here these rifles are a favorite hobby of mine so I am constantly on the lookout for brass and associated support items to keep them shooting.  If anything comes across by me will share it here with everyone.  In the meantime lets hope and say a prayer that someone steps up and maybe just maybe Starline will add the 76 calibers to their lineup.


Keep ya powder dry.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2019, 08:54:48 pm »
I will throw my $.02 in here as well.  Been working at the local gun shop after retirement, one of those bucket list things.  It gives me the chance to talk to all kinds of folks about lots of different guns. King Medallion is right, if it ain't got a plastic stock on it, with the ability to hang everything from flashlights to kitchen sinks off the front there doesn't seem to be much interest.  Funny thing is when you do bring any of the old west guns out there is immediately a crowd asking questions.  Brass availability is serious, the two principle suppliers I knew of are either shut down or in the process of going out of business.  like lots of other folks here, I have let Starline know of the hope they would consider runs of the 76 cartridge brass.  Just doesn't seem to interest them.  Supplies have dried up very quickly after the products went out of production so there seems to be a steady if small demand but as far as I have seen no interest in any new suppliers.  Like most here these rifles are a favorite hobby of mine so I am constantly on the lookout for brass and associated support items to keep them shooting.  If anything comes across by me will share it here with everyone.  In the meantime lets hope and say a prayer that someone steps up and maybe just maybe Starline will add the 76 calibers to their lineup.


maybe an update?
Grafs and Starline now listing 348 brass - around $1.75 per each  this is only in the last few days I believe
Starline website listing 50/110 and 50 Alaskan as available now and cheaper @ about $1.12 per each ---
So that makes 50/95 easy and 45/75 ok --the other two from 45/70 brass should never be a problem
my problem is getting them across 10,000miles of water and then through customs at the end of it

back to my other question - any guesses at the attrition rate reforming 50 Alaskan down to 45/75????


Keep ya powder dry.

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2019, 10:30:07 pm »
I have formed 45-75 brass from Starline 50-90 Sharps brass, but it involves more than just trimming and reforming. I had to narrow and thin the rims too, so it was somewhat tedious. In the end, though, they are perfectly formed.

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Offline dusty texian

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2019, 08:14:50 am »
I can understand and even expect that finding brass for old antique firearms would be a problem , but the repo 1876 rifles are in production , and I am sure most owners want to shoot them .  Uberti invested in the production of these 1876 repo's you would think it would be in their best interest to have a supplier produce brass for their use .  Most of us here can and do cobble together our own brass and reloads , but many cant or don't reload . Just a thought ,,,DT

Offline greyhawk

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2019, 10:02:42 am »
I can understand and even expect that finding brass for old antique firearms would be a problem , but the repo 1876 rifles are in production , and I am sure most owners want to shoot them .  Uberti invested in the production of these 1876 repo's you would think it would be in their best interest to have a supplier produce brass for their use .  Most of us here can and do cobble together our own brass and reloads , but many cant or don't reload . Just a thought ,,,DT

Thats good thinking DT - you would think it would have to be in Ubertis best interest to do it too - maybe there is a liability problem attached - they only warranty their guns for commercial ammo ? maybe that would come unstuck if they encourage unprimed brass ? 

Offline dusty texian

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2019, 10:40:17 am »
Well then having an ammunition company produce the four chamberings loaded to their specifications would behoove them . Its just a money deal the right amount will make any ammunition order  possible .,,,DT

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2019, 10:54:40 am »
I agree, Dusty.  I'd be interested to know if sales have dropped off in that caliber.  I imagine that the .45-75 was a less popular chambering in the Ubertis, so maybe they don't really care at this point.  I do still feel that, if someone stepped in and made brass, there would be a market.  Starline makes 56-50 Spencer (Taylor's centerfire) brass, which I imagine is a definite niche market too.

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Offline pinto beans

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2019, 07:26:28 pm »
I agree with you all, with modern reproductions rolling off the assembly line there would seem to follow a source of ammunition and components.  I have noticed in the world of reloading that there has been some shifts in the past few years in what is available and what has been discontinued.  The strange thing is many items, like the 76 cartridges, have a steady demand even if small.  There are several cartridges available that are, in my humble view, are just as scarce in terms of firearms for them but still available.  Case in point, you can still get .455 webley even though there aren't any new production revolvers that I am aware of being made in this cartridge. Yet here we are with new rifles being made and no ammo in production.  It boggles this poor old farmer's simple mind.  Wish I could offer up better.  Hang in there all, hopefully someone will come out with brass to fit our rifles.

P.B.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2019, 11:34:58 pm »
My sluething has unearthed 150 - 348W  Bertram cases cost about 2.25 per each - is about as good as I can do at the moment
Have read a lot of stuff uncomplimentary about Bertram brass - but untidy dont really matter as I will be cutting the end off and expanding to 45 anyway.
Just looking for any opinions on durability of this brand compared to others (dont matter what calibre - just anybody that loves it or hates it???)   


OR should I wait in the hope that somebody someplace makes a run of proper headstamp (that would be nice huh)

Offline dusty texian

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2019, 04:19:59 am »
Greyhawk the only experience I have had with Bertram brass was not good .  Was using it in a Sharps 45x120 the 3-1/4" case . Case splitting brittle inconsistent are the words I would use to describe it . Granted that case is hard on brass in the first place , but have not had the problems listed after using other brands . Have been thinking on purchasing 348  Winchester brass and using Unique as a powder and cornmeal on top as a filler wax capped ,  and fire form the cases in the chamber . Think Larry O described using this method with good results before . ,,,DT

Offline greyhawk

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2019, 07:55:57 am »
Greyhawk the only experience I have had with Bertram brass was not good .  Was using it in a Sharps 45x120 the 3-1/4" case . Case splitting brittle inconsistent are the words I would use to describe it . Granted that case is hard on brass in the first place , but have not had the problems listed after using other brands . Have been thinking on purchasing 348  Winchester brass and using Unique as a powder and cornmeal on top as a filler wax capped ,  and fire form the cases in the chamber . Think Larry O described using this method with good results before . ,,,DT

Thanks for the feedback - I reckon I have heard similar before - has to be a reason that Bertram brass is sitting on the shelf I guess. All my 348 stuff has been winchester brand and had zero problems with it. Have to resize a little for the 71 to get it to feed easy but I load it up too. 

Fireforming 348 ? I just blow em out with blackpowder loads
Anneal well, Then I used three different expanders - 375,401,457
Cut to length (a little oversize they shrink in the forming) Anneal again, full length size die

You are thinking of a one off chamber sizeing then cut em to length? - that would be easy if they stretch out that far in one go - would need to be properly annealed I think .     

Offline Buck Stinson

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2019, 09:09:03 am »
I agree about Bertram brass.  Great brass, but hard as a brick.  The necks must be annealed, or they will not last.  Same thing with .348 Win.  Tough stuff and will last through many reloadings, but as Greyhawk mentioned, these too should be annealed during the reforming process.  You loose fewer pieces of brass and it makes it much easier.

Offline larryo1

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2019, 09:13:11 am »
Hey--DT:
Yes, that is exactly the way that I did my brass.  In fact, .348 cases were the first brass that I got when I first got my '76.  At that time, I didn't know much about how to get head-stamped brass.  Later I picked up a bunch.  As far as Bertram goes, the cost was what made me shy away from it.  i never had any bad luck with it other than that.  Case life? Well I only got 20 rounds of the stuff and only lost one but later found it in the Barnyard all smunched up and useless.  If I had it to do over again, I wold stick to .348 brass.  I have both Winchester and Remington and have have no problems at all with either brand but that is just me I suppose.  Hope this helps y'all.

Offline larryo1

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2019, 09:21:45 am »
More goodies:

I, over time, got a gob of all that I needed--and want. As far as that .348 brass goes, I just keep loading and shooting wither it be smokeless or BP, it seems to like 'em both.  After the initial ritual of fire-forming, annealing and whatnot, everything seems to act normal(?) As I stated earlier, I got all I need but if I needed more, I sure would stick to .348 brass in either specie.  I don't think that I would hold my breath for Starline or Jamison or any of the rest of them to produce anymore if ever and as long as there is .348 cases available or at least until they dry up that would be the way that I would go.

Offline dusty texian

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2019, 01:38:38 pm »
A question for Larry O  , did you trim the 348 cases before fire forming ? If yes how much ? Thanks ,,,DT

Offline larryo1

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2019, 05:00:39 pm »
D.T.
No. I ran them through my RCBS Trim and file die afterwards. If my memory serves me right ( and at my age now that may not be so good) I think that there could have been less than a quarter inch but can't remember.  You gotta realize all that work was done more than 5 and more like 10 years ago.  Sorry!  Just fire form them and run them through that Trim die.

Offline dusty texian

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Re: .45-75 Winchester brass
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2019, 05:57:34 pm »
Thank you Larry O   ,  I have 20 empty once fired 348 wch brass on hand . I will try your method soon . I want about 2 or 3 hundred brass for my EHB 1876 45-75 . Have been ringing the steel gongs with it and that's is fun = eats up some ammo . ,,,,DT