Author Topic: 1886 Browning Question on Springs  (Read 3920 times)

Offline Jimeast

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1886 Browning Question on Springs
« on: March 12, 2018, 11:52:23 am »
I am getting ready to take my Browning 1886 apart and clean it up and have a go at resolving some of the issues associated to a stiff action and trigger.  

In a schematic on one Numrich site, I see three springs, Main Spring, Extractor Spring and the Carrier Spring.  The first two are coil springs.  Does the Carrier Spring contribute to a stiff action in a meaningful way?  I am assuming it's the main spring and extractor spring that create most of the issues associated to an overly stiff lever (opening is stiff due to mainspring, closing is stiff due to extractor spring).

Also, does the inertial firing pin assembly contribute to a stiff action in a meaningful way?  This assembly (very poor picture in the schematic) does not look "lighter" than a one piece FP, so if my rifle does not have problems with FTFs and the inertial FP is not a major source pf the challenges with stiffness, I will leave it be.


Offline greyhawk

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Re: 1886 Browning Question on Springs
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 04:20:40 pm »
I am getting ready to take my Browning 1886 apart and clean it up and have a go at resolving some of the issues associated to a stiff action and trigger.  

In a schematic on one Numrich site, I see three springs, Main Spring, Extractor Spring and the Carrier Spring.  The first two are coil springs.  Does the Carrier Spring contribute to a stiff action in a meaningful way?  I am assuming it's the main spring and extractor spring that create most of the issues associated to an overly stiff lever (opening is stiff due to mainspring, closing is stiff due to extractor spring).

Also, does the inertial firing pin assembly contribute to a stiff action in a meaningful way?  This assembly (very poor picture in the schematic) does not look "lighter" than a one piece FP, so if my rifle does not have problems with FTFs and the inertial FP is not a major source pf the challenges with stiffness, I will leave it be.

Jim
I have an early Browning model 71 - beautifully finished on the outside - wish the innards had got some of that same attention ! Mine was stiff from the start and it didnt loosen up with use - someone asked a question on one of these boards "what is the purpose of the cutout on the underside of the bolt on a '92" --- well I have had 92's forever and knew the answer but that triggered something and when I took a look at my 71 ---that cutuot was not there !!! the bottom of the bolt was milled dead flat !!! . That arch shaped cutout is supposed to let the bolt clear the hammer nose once the hammer is in the cocked position but on my rifle the mainspring was pushing up through the hammer onto the bottom of the bolt through its entire cycle - binding the bolt rails in their channel -- I did a lot of research before I went to work on it and its a different gun now - still not as slick as a proper 86 but not so bad. Problem number two - I got about ten shots after I did the bolt job and then the inertia firing pin malfunctioned - so I had to pull it down again and replaced that with a solid pin - it seems this is not an uncommon problem with these guns and you have to wonder - plenty of guys have gone after grizzlies and other things that bite with the 348 - that is no place for a lawyer inspired firing pin that will quit in mid stroke for no apparent reason.  If you are gonna hunt with that gun I would replace the firing pin with one that works all the time. Otherwise ? well dont blame the primers if you start getting occasional misfires / light strikes - I dont think you be the first.   



Offline King Medallion

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Re: 1886 Browning Question on Springs
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 05:39:37 pm »
Where did you get your fireing pin from? I had some work done on my Carbine. It's very smooth now but on occasions it has a ftf. I've read where this is a problem on the Brownings, and now that I have the rifle too, might be something to look into. Haven't fired the rifle yet, but it is stiff.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: 1886 Browning Question on Springs
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 05:57:55 pm »
Where did you get your fireing pin from? I had some work done on my Carbine. It's very smooth now but on occasions it has a ftf. I've read where this is a problem on the Brownings, and now that I have the rifle too, might be something to look into. Haven't fired the rifle yet, but it is stiff.

KM
Its a couple years ago and one of my failings is I dont write stuff down

The Browning 71 firing pin comes in three pieces with a little spring loaded latch affair that locks into the short centre section - I guess to prevent an Out of Battery Discharge - when it goes haywire you get a FTF - I didnt investigate a whole lot, maybe a good clean would have worked till next time - I just went online and found a picture of a real 71 firing pin - Its solid like old ones are - I figured from that we didnt really need all those little bits so I took em out and put away in a little bag with their name on it . 

The front portion of the pin (the striker bit) has a return spring - I left that as is - (although I believe the rifle would function correctly with it out)

 theres a photo below of the leftover parts - you can see the small (black) round bit that is the centre part of the firing pin and the notches in it where the little silver latch thingy engages - then there are two little pins - one is the latch pivot that fixes that part in the bolt - other is the retainer pin for the latch sptring (I used the spring for a ruger style hand spring in our army colt so the spring is missing from the pic - but you get it - about 1/8th diameter and maybe half inch long)

So that black piece with the notches in it goes into a counterbore in the forward end of the rear half of the firing pin (the half the hammer impacts on) I made a sollid replacement on the lathe and fitted it in.

This is where the memory fails - how did I fix it in? No idea! I know I would not have soldered or brazed it - so its either a neat floating fit OR if the other piece had a retaining pin I would have used that OR red loctite if I thought that appropriate   

so now we have a two piece firing pin - it all works as its sposed to - the rebound spring keeps the firing pin to the rear against the hammer face when its on half cock

also the firing pin begins to retract away from the primer immediately you move the lever - that is proper lever retraction NOT just the rebound spring so to my mind there is still no chance of an OBD.

So its all good - works nice - have not shot it much since - cant see a problem in what I did. Making a full length new pin for one of these or a 86 or 92 is a major undertaking for a hobbyist with hand tools. 

Lawyer stuff has a purpose I guess but guys take these guns and chase things that eat ya - if the first FTF happend on a charging Grizzly or a cranky Bull Moose .... i guess the lawyer is ok and the undertaker gets some more work
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 06:40:03 pm by greyhawk »