Author Topic: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?  (Read 1606 times)

Offline Doug.38PR

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Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« on: March 05, 2019, 11:17:24 am »
I live in North Louisiana and Texas.  I go to Houston frequently.

I cannot find anywhere that sells black powder over the counter.   Some of our SCV guys in reeinacting pool some money to mass order Swiss BP but that takes a collective effort.

Black Powder subs, the only thing I have been able to find on the shelf anywhere is, pardon my language, Pyrodex and 777 (both highly corrosive)

Even online, AAP/Cleanshot can be found but it sounds like it’s gone out of business.  

I started to go after Alliant’s new Black MZ but read they discontinued it.  

Blackhorn 209 , I have never used but that seems to be it and I get muxed reviews on it.


AAP cleaned very well on my guns and there was no need for lubing bullets.  My only complaint is that it gummed up my Uberti Schofield fairly quick after 10 rounds.   But I haven’t seen it on the shelf in forever.  
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 11:23:29 am by Doug.38PR »

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2019, 11:31:43 am »
Why not do it like most everybody else does and order blackpowder from Powder Inc.?
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Doug.38PR

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2019, 01:12:57 pm »
Why not do it like most everybody else does and order blackpowder from Powder Inc.?

I just discovered that site.  I’d like to order Goex fffg (.45 colt pistol, .44-40 rifle and .45-70) for all around use.  $20 hasmat fee plus $9 shipping comes to over $100.   That’s a big hard, but I’ll do it.

Still, as I said, it’s pretty limited option

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2019, 01:48:17 pm »
 If you find a store that carries powder, you'll likely be paying the same price per pound as they get charged the same hazmat fee.
Are you sure you're on Powder Inc. and not Powder Valley?  5 lbs of regular Goex 3f is 151$ delivered to your door.  Buying by the case bring the cost down considerably.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Doug.38PR

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2019, 02:57:45 pm »
If you find a store that carries powder, you'll likely be paying the same price per pound as they get charged the same hazmat fee.
Are you sure you're on Powder Inc. and not Powder Valley?  5 lbs of regular Goex 3f is 151$ delivered to your door.  Buying by the case bring the cost down considerably.
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product-category/reloading-supplies/powder/black-powder-substitutes/

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2019, 03:14:31 pm »
Just to help clarify (hopefully), I believe that this is the website that Ranch 13 was talking about:

https://powderinc.com/black-powder/

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Offline Ranch 13

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2019, 03:28:48 pm »
Yup.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Count Sandor

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2019, 03:54:11 pm »
Also, consider Graf's, in Mexico, MO. Shipping $9.95, Hazmat $12.50.
They carry Goex and Swiss, along with their own house-labeled brand, which is made for them by Wano, and is a couple of dollars cheaper than Goex.  I use Goex and the house brand generally interchangeably.

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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2019, 04:07:25 pm »

I shoot APP almost exclusively.  APP is available and IS NOT going out of business,  2 weeks ago I had 24 pounds dropped on my porch.  I have also heard Black MZ was discontinued.  I cannot confirm or deny that.  I have also heard Midway has stopped carrying APP.  I can't confirm that either.

Pertaining to your Schofield.  Most ANY BP or Sub will gum up yer Schofield.  Has noting at all to do with the propellant.  When Uberti copied the Schofield, they screwed up the cylinder bushing when they extended the cylinder to accept 45 Colt.  THAT was a gross mistake.

Blackthorn 209 is a duplex propellant.  If you're playing CAS, it is NOT LEGAL AT ALL.

I CAN confirm Pyrodex and 777 suck.

Offline Abilene

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2019, 05:27:46 pm »
...Buying by the case bring the cost down considerably.

This is true for any of the main BP distributors.  If you put the word out locally you can very likely find some others to go in on a case.  As for myself, I've had several opportunities in the last number of years to buy Goex from locals who were getting out of BP, and at $10 per pound I took everything they had.  Add to that I've been shooting smokeless more often these days due to my schedule, so haven't needed to order any in quite some time.  Down to about 7 or 8 lbs left.

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2019, 05:34:32 pm »
 Depending on how much shooting and with which guns, I go thru 1-3 cases of black a year.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2019, 05:42:30 pm »
We live about 20 miles from Grafs so black powder has never been a problem. 

Sportsmans Warehouse still shows BlackMZ available at $9.99/lb.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting/muzzleloader-black-powder/powder-primers/alliant-black-mz-muzzleloader-powder/p/1318670

Offline Doug.38PR

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 08:33:24 pm »
I shoot APP almost exclusively.  APP is available and IS NOT going out of business,  2 weeks ago I had 24 pounds dropped on my porch.  I have also heard Black MZ was discontinued.  I cannot confirm or deny that.  I have also heard Midway has stopped carrying APP.  I can't confirm that either.

Pertaining to your Schofield.  Most ANY BP or Sub will gum up yer Schofield.  Has noting at all to do with the propellant.  When Uberti copied the Schofield, they screwed up the cylinder bushing when they extended the cylinder to accept 45 Colt.  THAT was a gross mistake.

Blackthorn 209 is a duplex propellant.  If you're playing CAS, it is NOT LEGAL AT ALL.

I CAN confirm Pyrodex and 777 suck.

I know the Schofield will eventually jam for reasons you state.   But in observing hickok.45 shooting BP in his in .45 Colt, he was doing fine for about 4 cylinder fulls before rotation became difficult (and it was still managing after) where as myself using AAP lasted a cylinder and a half.  Maybe two and a half if I put CPL on the cylinder axis.    Thought a different powder might do better

https://youtu.be/swmlU4vazW8  (Fast forward about halfway through withbhim doing BP)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 10:34:07 pm by Doug.38PR »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2019, 09:48:17 am »
ABILENE, .....

I thoroughly understand why you would step off the chosen path occasionally.  HOWEVER!!  When occasion demands I utilize that Heathen Fad Smokeless stuff, I don't admit to it publicly.   8)

Doug,.  Unfortunately there are differences in manufacturing tolerances Gun to Gun and there are differences is load, bullet, primer combination that can vary results.  I have found what works in one gun, may well not work in another.  Of course this phenomenon is somewhat frustrating and will drive you stark raving(er).  I personally know a couple of guys that shoot Schofields and can get through perhaps two CAS stages before ugly things start to happen.  My own Schofield would go about 4 rounds.  I sold it on.  :(

I have heard on the street, there are those with Schofields whom have switched to Schofield cases and 160Gr bullets as well as the C45S case with 160Gr bullets and enjoyed good results with a Schofield.  Can't confirm or deny that.

Offline pony express

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2019, 07:19:41 pm »
+2 on Graf's...when they have what you want in stock. In addition to the 9.95+12.50, their prices are reasonable, around $20 for Olde Eynsford, couple dollars cheaper for regular Goex, and a little cheaper for Graf brand.

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2019, 06:46:43 am »
I've been sold on BlackMZ to the point of having a hord of it.   But on the occasions that I do buy real black, I buy Grafs Reenactor.  I've used it in everything form 44 cap guns,  44WCF,  C45S, 12 gauge, etc.   While some other brands or grades would probably work better,  Reenactor works well enough and is the least expensive of real black powder I can buy.

I made three videos comparing BlackMZ with Grafs Reenactor,  vs Goex, and vs Goex Cannon powder.   I shot 30 rounds each from a pair of Taylor's Smoke Wagons in 44WCF.

Here is the BlackMZ vs Grafs Reenactor.

https://youtu.be/O9KqK1laIpw

Offline kwilliams1876

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2019, 07:23:03 am »
Coonies in New Mexico is a black powder supplier that ships.

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2019, 10:32:15 am »
I just discovered that site.  I’d like to order Goex fffg (.45 colt pistol, .44-40 rifle and .45-70) for all around use.  $20 hasmat fee plus $9 shipping comes to over $100.   That’s a big hard, but I’ll do it.

Still, as I said, it’s pretty limited option
Powder inc has the hazmat and shipping built into their pricing. Of course the more you buy the cheaper it is spreading out the cost.
http://www.fendleyknives.com/

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Offline Doug.38PR

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2019, 02:39:06 pm »
ABILENE, .....

I thoroughly understand why you would step off the chosen path occasionally.  HOWEVER!!  When occasion demands I utilize that Heathen Fad Smokeless stuff, I don't admit to it publicly.   8)

Doug,.  Unfortunately there are differences in manufacturing tolerances Gun to Gun and there are differences is load, bullet, primer combination that can vary results.  I have found what works in one gun, may well not work in another.  Of course this phenomenon is somewhat frustrating and will drive you stark raving(er).  I personally know a couple of guys that shoot Schofields and can get through perhaps two CAS stages before ugly things start to happen.  My own Schofield would go about 4 rounds.  I sold it on.  :(

I have heard on the street, there are those with Schofields whom have switched to Schofield cases and 160Gr bullets as well as the C45S case with 160Gr bullets and enjoyed good results with a Schofield.  Can't confirm or deny that.

Well, I went ahead and got a bottle each of Swiss 3F and 2F to try it out.  Heard better reviews of Swiss compared to Goex.


As for the Schofield.  I got to try it out with Swiss yesterday.   Here are the results. https://youtu.be/w4lz5mIJUTU

Really disappointing but not surprising.  I really like the way the 7 inch schofield handles and feels compared to my 4 inch Vaquero.   I?m considering trying to find a smith that can modify it with a longer collar/gas ring cut into thevframe (demonstrated here on this forum). 

Swiss will do what you need it to do.  I like it.  If it performs better than Goex and offers more power then it?s worth the extra money

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2019, 12:09:18 pm »
Well, I went ahead and got a bottle each of Swiss 3F and 2F to try it out.  Heard better reviews of Swiss compared to Goex.


As for the Schofield.  I got to try it out with Swiss yesterday.   Here are the results. https://youtu.be/w4lz5mIJUTU

Really disappointing but not surprising.  I really like the way the 7 inch schofield handles and feels compared to my 4 inch Vaquero.   I?m considering trying to find a smith that can modify it with a longer collar/gas ring cut into thevframe (demonstrated here on this forum). 

Swiss will do what you need it to do.  I like it.  If it performs better than Goex and offers more power then it?s worth the extra money

What loads are you using? Shoot Schofield loads with big lube bullets and grease the main pin up good. Some Schofields will run all day like that. Then again you might have one of those that just don't like BP.
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Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Is it me, or are BP and BP sub options becoming limited?
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2019, 08:58:59 am »
Good Morning Pards,
I have  an order of Black MZ (made by APP) coming from Sportsman's Warehouse  at a very attractive price including that silly "hazmat".
This is not a paid announcement.
I have used BMZ and APP both and the difference i saw was BMZ is black and APP is grey otherwise it seemed the same in my percussion revolvers. I have not used any yet in brass cases so i can't speak to that.
Respectfully submitted
Bunk