Author Topic: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model  (Read 385 times)

Offline JustinGr

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Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« on: December 27, 2019, 07:04:50 am »
Good morning

For starters, I have an existing thread on toggle links that were suspected of being to big.

This is an update and focus on a different area. Primer if you did not read the other topic. I bought a ?non working? Uberti 1873 in 44-40 that was imported by EMF and has the AU date code to 1989.

The toggles in it are marked 3 on each. When there is no shell, the breech block is flush (.017? gap) with the barrel. So no headspace in this for when a case is inserted. One of our esteemed members said my toggles were a factory set of longer toggles and sent me a standard set. With these toggles, there is still no headspace. The replacement toggles were .010? shorter than the ones I had, and I needed to gain .051 and I?m still .041 from closing the breech bolt. ( measuring the distance from the breech block Pin pocket against shell in barrel and the rear pin pocket and transposing these measurements onto the pins)

In talking with Coffinmaker, over an earlier topic on this site he contributed to, he mentions that the old Uberti had a different breech bolt.

So, my question is, how do you identify the earlier breech blocks? Anyone have one I can get measurements for, I need to determine if mine is proper for this rifle. It has a lot of parts in it that I know not to be original.

In the alternative, with roughly .045? to remove to make this function, and assuming I can not find a proper older breech block, would it be easier to remove this difference from the barrel? Seems if I go milling on the breech block, as suggested on another site, that the extractor and bottom tab would by nature become to long and out of relationship with the shell.

Any other recommendations? I?m at a loss.

Offline wildman1

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2019, 07:23:15 am »
From the measurement you gave me you have the newer style bolt. If it were the older style I have a bolt that has more than 15 thousand headspace with cartridge in gun, also a 44/40. I wish yours was the old style as I would trade bolts with you. Check the PM I sent you this morning. I will also measure the bolt length on the two other Uberti 44/40's I have later today.
wM1
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Offline JustinGr

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2019, 05:10:35 pm »
How do I identify the bolt styles. My FP extension is the old pre-2008 style. It also has the 058 FP retaining pin. I do not have any frame of reference to compare so I can not determine.

Offline wildman1

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2019, 07:33:27 am »
Your FP extension is the new style. It is smaller in diameter than the old style if the bolt were old style the new style FP extension would be under sized and would slop around in the hole in the back of the bolt.
wM1
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline JustinGr

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2019, 09:18:26 am »
When you say slop, how much? It is by no means a snug fit and has some play and rattles around in the block. It also has some sanding marks on it.


Offline wildman1

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2019, 10:47:40 am »
New style bolt and FPE
new, not used                               used
bolt ID    .354   (tight)                   .354   (sloppy)
FPE OD   .352                               .351

Old style bolt and FPE
bolt ID    .393                           
FPE        .391 
 The new style that is tight has not been deburred on either the FPE or the inside of the bolt.
 I have 2 different versions of the new style bolts, one is held together by a pin thru the bolt the other held together by a wedge. It is irrelevant which one you have they are the same except the method used to fasten them together.
 You will notice a .040 difference between the old style and the new style bolt and FPE.
wM1
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 07:49:43 am by wildman1 »
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline JustinGr

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2019, 03:02:41 pm »
Thank you. Mine is 355, with the tiny pin to hold the FPE.


Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2019, 09:01:11 am »
Thank you. Mine is 355, with the tiny pin to hold the FPE.

While you are at it drill that pin out bigger and make a new pin from the drill bit shank you drill it with. Can't remember what number size I've used but I've done a few of those. Feel much safer with the larger pin.
http://www.fendleyknives.com/

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Offline wildman1

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2019, 11:52:47 am »
Or for a bigger margin of safety do a "Happy Trails" mod on it.
wM1
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline treebeard

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2020, 03:07:07 pm »
Or for a bigger margin of safety do a "Happy Trails" mod on it.
wM1

What is the Happy Trails mod? I did not see it on The Smith Shop website. May want it done on my Uberti carbine if it improves safety.

Offline JustinGr

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2020, 09:30:16 am »
It means *send it on down the line* it *get rid of it*


This rifle has a potpourri of pieces that may or may not belong in it and it is easier to send it packing than to figure out how to make it work.


But I am as stubborn as a mule and will figure it out.


Offline wildman1

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2020, 06:01:13 pm »
What is the Happy Trails mod? I did not see it on The Smith Shop website. May want it done on my Uberti carbine if it improves safety.
A Happy Trails mod consists of drilling and tapping the bottom of the bolt so a screw can be inserted into a slot that is milled into the bottom of the FPE. If you have an OOB discharge without the mod the FPE and FP can and will exit the rear of the rifle, after the little pin holding them together breaks, the screw will stop the FPE from exiting the rear of the rifle.
 I had it happen so I know it works. I also had an OOB without the mod and the FPE struck my safety glasses and hit someone on the posse in the leg.
wM1
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline wildman1

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2020, 06:07:20 pm »
It means *send it on down the line* it *get rid of it*


This rifle has a potpourri of pieces that may or may not belong in it and it is easier to send it packing than to figure out how to make it work.


But I am as stubborn as a mule and will figure it out.
The Happy Trails mod has only to do with a greater margin of safety for those with the bolt and firing pin extension being held with a small pin.
wM1
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline JustinGr

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2020, 07:01:36 pm »
Is it Happy Trail cause you can still see the trail after not having the FPE take out an eye?
 ;D

Offline wildman1

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2020, 06:34:51 am »
No, it is named after the gentleman that came up with the idea.
wM1
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2020, 08:54:24 am »

Wildman, was the one that exited the rifle still stock or had it been drilled and fitted with a larger hardened pin? Got me thinking I might need an extra safety measure on my old one. One of my main match rifles is still the old style but I've drilled and fitted it with a pin much larger than original.
http://www.fendleyknives.com/

NCOWS 3345  RATS 576 NRA Life member

Johnson County Rangers

Offline wildman1

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2020, 10:47:47 am »
Stock. The problem wasn't with the rifle. Two factors contributed to the OOB's. First a loading press that was leaving high primers, second I wasn't checking them close enough. After the second one I realized there was a major problem, I had several hundred loaded BP rounds and I started checking them. I found about 10% had high primers. The press was returned to the manufacturer  and the whole lower part of it was replaced. All rounds are now checked. The damage to the rifle probably would not have been so severe if they hadn't been 45 Colt with 37gs of BP.
wM1
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline Slamfire

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Re: Uberti 1873 44-40 Breech Block- How Identify Model
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2020, 11:11:38 am »
 wildman1 , read this before ,, sure made me check my primers ,, I load as slow as I t-t-t-ype.



 I need a shaky cup of coffee. Hootmix.

 

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