Author Topic: wells fargo shotgun  (Read 1060 times)

Offline bear tooth billy

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wells fargo shotgun
« on: April 13, 2019, 06:04:22 pm »
Did Wells Fargo mark their shotguns and what gauge
would they have used  Thanks  BTB
Born 110 years too late

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: wells fargo shotgun
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2019, 11:17:32 pm »

YES.

10s and 12s.

However.  There have been sooooo many faque Wells Fargo shotguns, actually finding a "real" coach gun is astronomically unlikely   :(

Offline bear tooth billy

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Re: wells fargo shotgun
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2019, 08:53:38 pm »
Well I got the shotgun, it says Wells Fargo 57, probably a fake. But it's
pretty cool, 18'' barrels, patented in 1892. It had a sticky firing pin so
I took it all apart and soaked it overnight and then oiled it. Stuck it out
the back door and shot off 2 primers and it worked fine. Will try some
BP loads soon.

                           BTB
Born 110 years too late

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: wells fargo shotgun
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2019, 04:01:32 am »
We went thru attempting to ID a Wells Fargo & CO. shotgun some time ago. The owner maintained
it must be genuine, since it had an official Wells Fargo & CO. badge tacked to the stock.
Unfortunately there was a time when one could purchase the badges by the dozen in boxes on the
gunshow tables....

in fact on May 28, 2008 our own Very Major 2 posted

"You'll fine both of those badges here
http://railroadiana.org/fakes/pgFakes_WF.php"

I have even seen pre-1860 cut-down percussion Belgian shotguns poorly marked up and passed off as the
genuine Wells Fargo Coach Shotgun.

usually these "artifacts" do not have any provenance that will stand up to scrutiny.

the most honest auction description I have recently seen stated

"this gun is like those Wells Fargo might have employed on their routes to defend against bandits and other ne?er-do-wells. The right side of the stock bears a badge marked ?W.F. & CO./GUARD/EXPRESS/SAN FRANCISCO?.
The left side has ?WELLS FARGO & CO?S. S.F. CAL. EXPRESS? stamped into the wood.
In all likelihood, these markings were added later"
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I did find the following for you:

From the Wells Fargo website: (https://www.wellsfargo.com/about/history/faqs#Q10)

"Did Wells Fargo produce belt buckles or chest badges?

From the 1960s on there have been many items produced by others as souvenirs of the "Wild West."
Among them are Wells Fargo marked belt buckles (often marked on the back as made by Tiffany),
chest badges, Bowie knives, brass body tags, and stagecoach plates.

There are also many items with a brass shield saying "Property of Wells Fargo San Francisco Division,"
often attached to an actual antique. None of these were made by or for Wells Fargo.

In the 1970s, Wells Fargo did issue a commemorative belt buckle and a commemorative star-shaped badge.
They are clearly marked on the back as copyrighted by Wells Fargo and Company.


"How do I know if the Wells Fargo markings on an antique shotgun are real?

"Wells Fargo" marked shotguns have become a problem among collectors of antique firearms.

In general, each town's Well Fargo Agent bought weapons from local stores carrying whatever was available ? it was not a central headquarters function. Just as with companies today, Wells Fargo's offices did not keep outdated records. Therefore, there are no comprehensive lists of Wells Fargo firearms.

Additionally, in recent years, many people have added "Wells Fargo" to actual antique weapons.
All of this makes it very difficult to know whether any shotgun currently for sale was or was
not used by Wells Fargo, regardless of the markings. For further information, you may check the
book by James Bartz, Company Property, (the Westbound Stage, 1993), for sale at http://www.westboundstage.com."

-----------------------------------

hope this helps
prof marvel
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: wells fargo shotgun
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2019, 08:58:21 am »

I find it soooooo annoying.  Over the years so many nefarious pieces of KRAP have attempted to pass faque sample examples off just to rake in a few miserable shekels.  Usually selling to some unsuspecting amateur collector whom just wants a swell piece of history.

Today .... it is mostly impossible to authenticate a true Wells Fargo Shotgun.  Unless of course, you can buy some time on the Wabac machine (Sherman and the Professor).

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: wells fargo shotgun
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2019, 04:02:52 am »
I find it soooooo annoying.  Over the years so many nefarious pieces of KRAP have attempted to pass faque sample examples off just to rake in a few miserable shekels.  Usually selling to some unsuspecting amateur collector whom just wants a swell piece of history.

Today .... it is mostly impossible to authenticate a true Wells Fargo Shotgun.  Unless of course, you can buy some time on the Wabac machine (Sherman and the Professor).

I agree entirely!
what irks me more are the enablers.
The people who sold (and the ones who bought) the original inspectors' stamps, and use them on repros
the ones who "sell a defarb/remark service" but refuse to mark the gun ANYWHERE showing it's true origin....

but one must pick one's fights.
I am too old to paint my face black and go on the warpath for every little trifle....

yhs
prof mumbles.
Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: wells fargo shotgun
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2019, 11:12:09 am »

Professor M.,
Must agree.  One must be very careful of which Windmills to Tilt at.  I do not after all, believe in a fair fight.  Unfortunately, whilst gazing in the Looking Glass just the other day, I was taken by the Old Gent looking back at me.  Irksome it is.  I certainly don't remember Becoming so much more seasoned.

Also found this spring, whilst hanging onna wall over the desk, my Gun Belts seem to have shrunk.  Confounded by this occurrence I am.  Seams totally unfair it does.

Offline Trailrider

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Re: wells fargo shotgun
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2019, 11:46:15 am »
"In general, each town's Well Fargo Agent bought weapons from local stores carrying whatever was available ? it was not a central headquarters function. Just as with companies today, Wells Fargo's offices did not keep outdated records. Therefore, there are no comprehensive lists of Wells Fargo firearms."

Authenticity problems of Wells Fargo firearms applies not only to shotguns. Years ago, I picked up a barreled M1886 action that had "W.F. EXP. Co. XXXX" on one of the flats of the 16-3/8" octagon barrel. The markings did NOT appear to be stamped, but rather shallowly engraved. Note the way it was expressed is NOT the standard "W.F.& Co. Express". But a M1849 pocket pistol shown on the museum's brochure back then, had the same marking as the '86! As the lower tang, where the serial numbers are on '86's, was missing, it was not possible to trace it through Winchester records. Upon contacting the Wells Fargo museum in San Francisco, they advised that it was probably a local purchase item by one of their branches.  Although there was nothing to indicate the length of the magazine, I restored it as a half-magazine style, which would hold four rounds of .40-65 WCF, the caliber marked on the barrel.  Why would they want such a short barrel? Probably for use in an express baggage car, rather than for a stage coach messenger.  That caliber would pack some punch, and would reach out to longer range than a shotgun, but still be easily maneuvered in a tight space. Authentic? Quien sabe? For what it cost over forty-five years ago...I probably spent more on replacement parts!  ::)
Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

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