Anyone have a "floating firing pin" Uberti SAA replica?

[Coffinmaker]

Chucksolo   

I have a surprise for ya.  That "HUGE" cylinder base pin screw you see in some of the photographs, is no more than an assembly and set-up screw.  Included in the box, usually stuck thru some unobtrusive section of cardboard, or in an itty bitty plastic baggie, is the size appropriate screw that fits into the initial frame hole.  However:

The Pietta is a better deal.

Rest assured though.  I personally think the "retracting" firing pin is some swell kind of STUPID.  Not that I'm at all Opinionated.

[chucksolo1]

Thanks Coffinmaker, that's good to know. I may just check that one ot again and get it if they have one in .44-40!

[Abilene]

ChuckSolo1, fyi Cimarron has the 44-40 in the Uberti Old Model frame with standard firing pin in all barrel lengths in stock, but they are currently out of the Frontier (Pietta) Old Model in 44-40.  And both the Pietta and Uberti Old Models (BP frame) have the knurled thumbscrew installed from the factory with the small authentic screw in the box.  That thumbscrew, along with the two-position basepin, satisfies the import requirement to be able to make the gun safe without any tools.

Also, to correct you on the model designation.  I'm not sure where you saw the Frontier "Pre-War" model had the BP frame.  That was a mistake, even if you saw it that way (Cimarron website has errors here and there).  The "BP Frame" models with the base pin screw in the front of the frame are called "Old Model" by Cimarron regardless of Pietta or Uberti.  Likewise, models from both are called "Pre-War" that have the transverse spring loaded latch for the base pin.  I wouldn't want you to ask for the wrong thing and get what you don't want.   

[RUSS123]

I bought a Pietta Frontier Stainless with a 7.5" barrel last Spring. It doesn't have a hammer safety. It does however, have the Ruger style hand spring, which I'm glad about. I bought it new from Cimerron. It's my best shooter and well made. By the way, I'm new here and this is my first post.

[TinMan2]

OK I'm late to the table..............I was at a gun show in Charleston SC last Nov.  There on one table was a Cattleman II Stoeger import in 45 Colt.  Short barrel, color cased(beautiful blues), steel grip frame.  It had the internal retractable firing pin but they let me play with it and honestly it was slick.  I bought it.  I've shot it a lot with my handloads and it smacks the hard primers just fine.  Not one bit of trouble and everyone at the range didn't notice the lack of the first tiny click and thought it was a conventional firing pin setup.  I had to show them how it worked.  Everyone thought that that was a good invisible way of making it safe to carry 6 rounds in the field.  A five year warranty from Stoeger too!  I'm sure you 4 click guys that own Uberti's know that they all now come with coil spring hands?  Are you folks going to change that back to a flat hand spring ?
 I'm going to replace the flat trigger bolt spring with a wire one when and IF the flat one breaks.  Basicly I have a SAA that I can carry safely with 6 rounds and not worry about breaking a hand or trigger/bolt spring. It will replace my Ruger Blackhawk for carry in camp and the swamp.  Everyone fights change, do you drive a car/truck with a carburetor or the new fangled fuel injection?  Same thing, need to accept something that works better and you can't see or have to think about.  I like safer and more reliable along with good looks.  Just my $.02 and my opinion.   

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[Professor Marvel]

Greetings TinMan2 

glad to hear you like yours, even gladder to hear it has no problems!

......  I'm sure you 4 click guys that own Uberti's know that they all now come with coil spring hands? 
.......Are you folks going to change that back to a flat hand spring ?
.... Everyone fights change, do you drive a car/truck with a carburetor or the new fangled fuel injection?

We have a wonderful diversity of opinions here, and it literally goes to show that "It Depends" (tm)

some folks want an SAA as a completely modern tool, tank-tough and virtually unbreakable. For that we have Rugers

some folks want the traditional look & feel of the Model P but with modern guts. For that we are getting wonderful stuff mainly from Italy.

some folks want want a 1873 Model P EXACTLY  as originally built, and it's ok if it uses modern steels, but by golly, leave the design the hell alone!

ain't choice grand?

yhs
prof marvel

[yahoody]

"Same thing, need to accept something that works better and you can't see or have to think about. "


if only any one of those things mentioned were true....but it aint 

No disrepect intended.  The "new" by Uberti in this case doesn't work better from my experience. I can feel it.  The new system simply doesn't work 100% in my hands.  I have no use for a gun that won't work 100% of the time and not be a distraction.

 

[RUSS123]

Greetings TinMan2 

glad to hear you like yours, even gladder to hear it has no problems!

We have a wonderful diversity of opinions here, and it literally goes to show that "It Depends" (tm)

some folks want an SAA as a completely modern tool, tank-tough and virtually unbreakable. For that we have Rugers

some folks want the traditional look & feel of the Model P but with modern guts. For that we are getting wonderful stuff mainly from Italy.

some folks want want a 1873 Model P EXACTLY  as originally built, and it's ok if it uses modern steels, but by golly, leave the design the hell alone!

ain't choice grand?

yhs
prof marvel

I don't know how it came to being... but my Pietta Frontier Stainless has a 4 click hammer and employs the safety on the base pin by that second notch, which I certainly don't use. My Pietta has the Ruger style coil handspring which is the single most important upgrade to me. The rest of the leaf springs are fine, easy to replace should they break.

My Uberti 1872 Open Top has the "turn screw" style hammer block safety but just a 3 clicker.  I say: What's the point? Why not keep to a 4 click hammer anyway which keeps to the original safety in addition to the hammer block. It would have made a lot of people happy. When you think about it, removing the first position hammer safety only made it less safe because nobody is going to fool with the safety on the hammer just like nobody is going to use that extra notch on a base pin. There is no reason not have kept the 4 click hammer.

Ruger's ridiculousness: Even with the transfer bar safety, Ruger employs an additional safety with the Gate whereby, you can't open the gate when the hammer is cocked and likewise, you can't pull back on the hammer when the gate is open. My question to Ruger is: Why? It doesn't do a single thing for safety. You can't do better than a transfer bar for safety so the Gate safety is pointless. A Ruger can be converted a 4 clicker, eliminating the Gate safety as well.

The transfer bar safety is nothing new by the way. It was first employed on a Top Break revolver made by the Iver Johnson and Cycle Works Co, founded in 1883, Fitchburg, Massachusetts. A friend of mine has one that was long handed down to him by his Father's Grandfather, who acquired it as payment in place of money owed.

[medic15al]

My Pietta 7 1/2in Old Model I got from Cimarron as the Frontier Old Model Came with only the thumbscrew, I had to call Cimarron for the proper flush mount Base Pin screw.

4 click fixed firing pin on hammer and coil Handspring. Butter soft screws with the Bottom backstrap screw refusing to budge and
smudging on attempt..

I love this one. My Old Model P Uberti from Cimarron in Charcoal Blue is solid, came with both styles of base pin screws.

[dangt]

I just took my "floating firing pin" Cattleman II out to shoot for the first time last week.  Absolutely no ignition failures. I had recently come back to this type of firearm after several decades of shooting only double action S&Ws. In the distant past I had owned Colt, Ruger, and Uberti SAAs.

What really bothers me tremendously about the floating firing pin system is the altered shape of the trigger.  It has far more curvature ( looks wrong) and to me feels odd to my trigger finger.

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[dangt]

I just finished installation of a "four click" hammer with appropriate trigger on my Cattleman II.  As posted above , the shape and position of the the trigger was for me the most bothersome features of the original floating firing pin parts. I also just did not trust the floating safety system, however right or wrong that distrust was.

I had ordered the two parts from Taylor's in March and had immediately received the trigger. Hammer was on back order and then the Corona-virus problem hit and I expected to wait years............if it ever would come at all. 

So, it did come in  July and it is indeed still being made by Uberti , apparently.  If nor being made, it is still being shipped.

By the way, I did not have to replace or even re-time the hand nor the cylinder stop. Trigger, of course had to be fitted.

[45 Dragoon]

I just finished installation of a "four click" hammer with appropriate trigger on my Cattleman II.  As posted above , the shape and position of the the trigger was for me the most bothersome features of the original floating firing pin parts. I also just did not trust the floating safety system, however right or wrong that distrust was.

I had ordered the two parts from Taylor's in March and had immediately received the trigger. Hammer was on back order and then the Corona-virus problem hit and I expected to wait years............if it ever would come at all. 

So, it did come in  July and it is indeed still being made by Uberti , apparently.  If nor being made, it is still being shipped.

By the way, I did not have to replace or even re-time the hand nor the cylinder stop. Trigger, of course had to be fitted.

Sounds great!!! Now you have a 5 shooter instead of a six shooter(jk)!!   It's amazing how far folks will go to get 4 clicks!!  Glad you got the gun you want!! That's what it's all about!  Curious, what didn't you trust about the "retractable" firing pin? I liked the previous "Block safety" but I think the new version is pretty cool. I've worked on a couple and don't understand what the fuss is !! Ruger is so popular and it's a 3 clicker and so is pretty much everything else I work on (C&B, ROA's, cart.conversions, 71/72 OT's .  .  .  !l).  I think I'd rather have the new system instead of a new transfer-bar system!!

Mike

[dangt]

I do not like the appendage on the side of the trigger that activates the plunger in the hammer of the floating firing pin system.  It has the appearance of being not-too-strong, whether it is or not.  With hammer out of the gun , in hand, any resistance against the firing pin makes the plunger feel somewhat gritty.  Originally, I thought I'd just remove the plunger and build one that would constantly force the firing pin to extend.  The darned shape and position of the trigger would still be there to annoy the heck out of me.  As much as the overly curvaceous trigger seemed  to get my goat, the too far forward position looked and felt exceedingly wrong TO ME.

Then , also, there was a small function glitch that was not safety related.  the half cock timing was such that to extract an empty case, the cylinder had to be given a little nudge to put in the correct position so empties did not catch on the side of the loading cut-out. The replacement hammer seems to have eliminated that little problem without having to use a longer hand.

Turning the gun "back" into a five shooter does not bother me at  all.  I've had too many Single Actions in the past with the old fashioned not-very-safe safety notch.  I more appreciate the fewer number of parts of that older hammer/trigger system.

[Coffinmaker]

You can always set the hammer down with the firing pin between cartridge rims to carry 6 Up.

Hide and Watch

[Cliff Fendley]

Sounds great!!! Now you have a 5 shooter instead of a six shooter(jk)!!   It's amazing how far folks will go to get 4 clicks!!  Glad you got the gun you want!! That's what it's all about!  Curious, what didn't you trust about the "retractable" firing pin? I liked the previous "Block safety" but I think the new version is pretty cool. I've worked on a couple and don't understand what the fuss is !! Ruger is so popular and it's a 3 clicker and so is pretty much everything else I work on (C&B, ROA's, cart.conversions, 71/72 OT's .  .  .  !l).  I think I'd rather have the new system instead of a new transfer-bar system!!

Mike

Personally I don't trust the retractable firing pin to retract if it gets gummed up so wouldn't trust it anyway. No way would I trust that over a transfer bar like the Ruger. The Ruger is a whole different animal and MUCH better and proven design.

[45 Dragoon]

Well,  that's  great Cliff but I'm  still gonna like um. So far i haven't seen any reports of gummed up firing pins or broken  plungers for the firing pin.  Can't  say i havent seen any posts about broken transfer bars .  .  .  in Rugers  .  .  .   but hey,  its good to have options!!

Happy shooting!
Mike

Btw, all my revolvers have frame mounted  firing pins and ive never had one "gum up".  Weird .  .  . 

[Cliff Fendley]

Well,  that's  great Cliff but I'm  still gonna like um. So far i haven't seen any reports of gummed up firing pins or broken  plungers for the firing pin.  Can't  say i havent seen any posts about broken transfer bars .  .  .  in Rugers  .  .  .   but hey,  its good to have options!!

Happy shooting!
Mike

Btw, all my revolvers have frame mounted  firing pins and ive never had one "gum up".  Weird .  .  .

If a transfer bar breaks the gun won't go bang. If a frame mounted firing pin sticks it won't rotate you'll know there is a problem or it wont move and hit the primer. If this new fangled firing pin mechanism sticks in the hammer in the outward position it will contact the primer even without the user knowing. I've heard too many complaints and seen too many of the hammer block safeties taken out of the Uberti hammers to trust something similar but more complicated that can work just the opposite as intended should it fail.

It's unlikely to happen to you or me or most anyone on a board like this because we clean and disassemble guns regularly. I've seen too many rusty guns and poorly cared for guns floating around auctions and gun shows, guns shops, etc. of guns coming from estates and such and know that is not the case with a large portion of gun owners. Unfortunately many guns sit around and get neglected.

In my opinion this has opened Uberti up to some serious lawsuit the first time one fails. At least if someone uses a gun improperly causing harm it can be argued the users fault but in this case the entire blame will be on the designer of a faulty mechanism. It may or may not happen but give these guns a few years and see what happens when a huge number of those guns are floating around that haven't ever been cleaned and rust forms inside. Until then it's wait and see but I wouldn't want to be responsible for marketing such a thing.

[45 Dragoon]

If a transfer bar breaks the gun won't go bang. If a frame mounted firing pin sticks it won't rotate you'll know there is a problem or it wont move and hit the primer. If this new fangled firing pin mechanism sticks in the hammer in the outward position it will contact the primer even without the user knowing. I've heard too many complaints and seen too many of the hammer block safeties taken out of the Uberti hammers to trust something similar but more complicated that can work just the opposite as intended should it fail.

It's unlikely to happen to you or me or most anyone on a board like this because we clean and disassemble guns regularly. I've seen too many rusty guns and poorly cared for guns floating around auctions and gun shows, guns shops, etc. of guns coming from estates and such and know that is not the case with a large portion of gun owners. Unfortunately many guns sit around and get neglected.

In my opinion this has opened Uberti up to some serious lawsuit the first time one fails. At least if someone uses a gun improperly causing harm it can be argued the users fault but in this case the entire blame will be on the designer of a faulty mechanism. It may or may not happen but give these guns a few years and see what happens when a huge number of those guns are floating around that haven't ever been cleaned and rust forms inside. Until then it's wait and see but I wouldn't want to be responsible for marketing such a thing.

  Cliff, while I see "some" merit in your thought process, the idea that a revolver is dangerous isn't new and is definitely dangerous in the hands of someone ignorant in its operation. Kinda like someone buying a straight shift car and complaining not knowing how to use it.  Personally,  if I am going to own a revolver, I don't want one that will fail on the side of "won't fire"!  There goes my life, a loved ones life,  whatever .  .  .    pulling the trigger and hearing " click" instead of boom sounds like a nightmare to me. I would argue that a lawsuit exists if a life is lost because of a failure  .  .  .  it goes both ways.
  The S.A. in question uses a system that will only work with the trigger pulled. Likewise, (but different operation) Glock uses a trigger mounted safety. I'll be honest here because I don't own any Glock firearms but I'm not sure how many accidents happen because the trigger safety gets stuck or "gummed up".  They are still in existence .  .  .    The spring and plunger mounted in the hammer of the S.A. in question isn't a new concept. Ruger has used it since the 50's even though it's for a different operation.  Using the spring and plunger as a sort of firing pin " disconnect " so to speak isn't all that new either. Semi auto pistol typically use a disconnect , some lever action rifles .  .  .   so things can (and do) get gummed up/dirty worn .  .  .   all kinds of things can happen and the owner should understand his/her weapon.
  Back to the S.A. in question, when loaded, the hammer will go all the way down to rest on the frame. I think a good practice with this revolver would be to check the firing pin function regularly by pointing the empty revolver up and watching the firing pin move in and out of position as you pull and release the trigger. If the firing pin is somehow "binding" and is in the forward position,  you won't see the normal movement.  Pulling the trigger just far enough to allow the half cock notch to not engage after loading, won't allow the pin to move forward - which I believe is the reason for ftf reports from the cowboy community.  It's more than likely a technique problem using this particular setup ( finger totally off the trigger when the hammer reaches the frame). Others say they've had absolutely no problems at all.
  In conclusion, I would say this is as sound  as pretty much any other "safety" system in use (though I really really liked the block system Uberti had for so many years). As most of "us" would say, the best "safety" is the one between your ears!

Mike

[Tbone13]

I have a Uberti (Cimarron) Bad Boy .44 with the hammer transfer bar.  It works fine but I haven't shot it that much yet. About 150 rounds or so.
The loss of a click doesn't matter to me, I'd rather it was old style but it is a little safer since the gun won't fire without the trigger held back all the way.
A slip of the thumb can cause the clumsy to shoot their foot off.
It does cause me to check it for free movement every time I clean it, since it's a new thing.
Overall, I give it a C-.  Things change. At least they didn't etch a safety manual into the side of the frame or something. Could be worse.