Author Topic: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?  (Read 14892 times)

Offline Coffinmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5194
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2017, 03:07:11 pm »
Come to think of it, I really wonder where they found an original Volcanic Rifle.  Even more of a question is how they managed to talk the person whom own'd said Volcanic into letting them use it inna movie.  You just don't throw something that valuable around like a bag of Pop Corn.

A few years ago there was fella (Long Thread on Paco Kelly's Lever forum) scratch built a modern reproduction of a Volcanic.  Used a .40 Auto cartridge.  I wouldn't mind having that either.

I really need to win the Lotto.

Offline Will Ketchum

  • Chief of Detectives
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2782
  • Pete Ersland
  • SASS #: 4222
  • NCOWS #: 133
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2017, 03:24:04 pm »
Come to think of it, I really wonder where they found an original Volcanic Rifle.  Even more of a question is how they managed to talk the person whom own'd said Volcanic into letting them use it inna movie.  You just don't throw something that valuable around like a bag of Pop Corn.

A few years ago there was fella (Long Thread on Paco Kelly's Lever forum) scratch built a modern reproduction of a Volcanic.  Used a .40 Auto cartridge.  I wouldn't mind having that either.

I really need to win the Lotto.

I was wondering the same thing but don't recall seeing it in the actual movie. ???

Will Ketchum
Will Ketchum's Rules of W&CAS: 1 Be Safe. 2 Have Fun. 3  Look Good Doin It!
F&AM, NRA Endowment Life, SASS Life 4222, NCOWS Life 133.  USMC for ever.
Madison, WI

Offline 2jakes

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2017, 03:54:41 pm »
 “For a Few Dollars More” (1967).

The volcanic rifle in the movie has a ring like for a sling strap.




Engraved receiver.

I owned a Henry 44-40 octogon barrel, brass receiver by Uberti back in 1990.
I know that it was too heavy to hold it like Eastwood is doing in the movie.
I’m not familiar with these rifles to determine what model was used in the movie
that he was able to hold it with one hand, unless the dude was super strong to hold
it like that for a long time.

I was wondering if anyone knows what model was used and if it’s available as a reproduction.

Or if this was only a “Hollywood prop”.
Similar to the movie., ‘The Good, the Bad & the Ugly”.
Where Tuco walks into a gun shop, takes several black powder revolvers from different companies
and within minutes manages to convert the black powder revolver to use cartridges.
I’m no expert, but is this possible to do so that quick ???


Offline Major 2

  • "Still running against the wind"
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 11470
  • Cracker Cow Cavalry
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2017, 06:21:40 pm »
A Few Dollars More was filmed in Spain as was TGBU & several others....

The gun is a Volcanic in 41 cal.  either had a 20" barrel , Eastwood has it tucked under his arm, Easily held as the photo shows.

 Stembridge Gun rentals of Hollywood probably had a Volcanic or two, but I don't think this FDM gun was one of theirs.

They did produce a Hollywood Henry made from a 92 Winchester, seen in more than few Films & TV shows.

Stembridge is no more, its vast collection sold off in auctions some years back .

when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Major 2

  • "Still running against the wind"
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 11470
  • Cracker Cow Cavalry
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2017, 06:26:22 pm »
1892 Winchester converted to Henry appearance by Stembridge Gun Rentals in the 1950’s before the advent of reproductions. The gun measures approx. 41-1/2” overall with 22-1/2” round barrel, full magazine. The frame is extended approx. 1-3/8” with false Henry type magazine spring lever, and a long range tang sight added. The barrel and small parts have been nickeled, the frame and buttplate gold-plated. The stock is stamped “C. B. 176”. The action good, the bore rough from shooting 5-in-1 blanks. The barrel is in .44-40 caliber, but not for firing live rounds. This exact rifle was included in the Stembridge Gun Rentals sale and was noted at that time as being used in the 1964 Western movie Cheyenne Autumn, by John Ford starring Richard Widmark, Carl Malden, and Jimmie Stewart and a host of other famous actors including Mike Mazurki. This was Ford’s last film in Monument Valley and there is a fun scene of Jimmie Stewart as Wyatt Earp in Dodge City. 1892 Henrys like this are in many other films throughout the 1960’s and also a couple of shots in Silverado
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Coffinmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5194
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2017, 12:03:23 pm »
Additionally ..... Now that we are successfully drifting without a rudder ......
There is a surprisingly large and active collectors movement in Europe (Just ask Long Johns Wolf) for antique American guns.  Also quite the market for specialty Gun Smiths who built super authentic reproductions of Colt pattern conversions (just ask Long Johns Wolf) and the existence of an original Volcanic is not really surprising.  That an owner of one would let it be used in a movie is surprising however.

The Volcanic pictured does have a sling loop of a type not seen (at least not by me) on later Henry Rifles.  With the manner Eastwood is holding the rifle, can't see the sling mount in the Butt Stock.  I shoot several custom carbine length Henry Rifles.  They could be held in the same manner as the shorter barrel is much more user friendly.  That said, the Eastwood rifle is an actual Volcanic, which is considerably smaller and lighter than a Henry.

Offline treebeard

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 399
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2017, 04:06:30 pm »
Ok— so what is the big deal with 44 Special?

Offline Dave T

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 368
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2017, 04:38:34 pm »
Ok— so what is the big deal with 44 Special?

I'll give you my answer, but that doesn't mean it applies to anyone else.

The 44 Special is much closer "in spirit" to the original 44 Henry Flat than the 44 WCF (44/40) that is generally offered in Henry reproductions. And just as the 44 Special is closer, the 44 Russian would be even closer...in spirit.

YMMV,
Dave

Offline treebeard

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 399
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #58 on: December 01, 2017, 06:22:33 pm »
I guess I kinda thought that a 44-40 with 200gr bullet in front of 28gr of black powder would come reasonably close to the original Henry performance. I agree with the suggestion of reproduceing the original 44 Henry CF case thru Starline and chamber that in a repro Henry or 1866.


Offline Coffinmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5194
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #59 on: December 01, 2017, 07:44:16 pm »
Dave T.  Hit the nail onna head first try.  The Original Henry rifle was chambered in 44 Henry Flat.  The closest cartridge we have to that today is the 44 Russian.  Acquiring a Henry, chambered in  44 Special (Hen's Teeth) enables one to then modify a Carrier Block to permit the use of 44 Russian cases to closely mime 44 Henry Flat.  As previously noted .... "In Spirit."  Today, nobody is chambering anything rifle in 44 Russian.  Nor 44 Henry Central Fire.  Nor making rifles in those calibers.  So we hope to improvise .... "In Spirit" as it twer.

On the other hand, I have taken a different tach with my own personal rifles.  45 Squirt.  The 45 Squirt is a 45 Schofield case cut to the same length as the 45 ACP.  Fired in a rifle chambered in 45 Colt.  With an appropriate cartridge stop added to the Henry Carrier Block, and the Breach Block clearance for the cartridge stop, a reproduction Henry will contain a whole pile of them (45 Squirts).  You may also substitute C45S cases.  Same same overall dimensions.

I too would covet a 44 Special Henry, just to be able to harken back to those Halcyon days of Yesteryear.  Butt.  And However.  I can already do that with my 45 Caliber Rifles.  They cycle 45 Squirt or C45S like wet grain thru a goose and since I already held ownership, the modifications were dirt cheap although making 45 Squirt is real boring.  The result has been worth it.  FUN.  Real FUN has been the result.  And utilizing a cartridge case more approximating the 44 Henry Flat than does 44-40 or 45 Colt.

So, in summation, there are those of us Loony enough to see approximating the Original cartridge with more modern and available cartridge cases as a genuine accomplishment just for FUN.  Atz why I built an 1866 chambered in 44 Special into a 16 inch barrel Trapper and set it up to run 44 Russian to partner up with a pair of 1872 Open Top pistols chambered in 44 Colt and running the same 44 Russian cases as might have been back in the day with the original Open Top and an original '66.  Just for fun.  Also had a great set of buckskins (shirt and pants) made me look like Fox Creek Kid to go with the guns (then I got fat) (and old).  So the whole shebang boils down to ...

                                                                                FUN

Offline Mike

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 637
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2017, 12:42:11 am »
Not if I find it first ;D been searching the web for pictures of this for awhile. I believe it is missing parts but who cares.
Buffalochip

Offline Rooster Ron Wayne

  • Rooster
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 145
  • Lube your Balls & Cap your Nipples ~ Just Sayin !
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2017, 07:53:18 pm »
I found a 44 special Uberti Henry for sale in Germany .
1350 plus shipping .
One from FFL in  Germany to the USA and to The FFL in Michigan another 1300 .00 for the fees and transfer.
And all has to be Pre Paid and it takes 6 to 8 months to make it happen .
To rich for my blood .
Rooster .
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."

Offline Cholla Hill Tirador

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 535
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2017, 09:16:49 am »
  Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but I think the simplest solution would be to buy a Henry in 44-40, have the chamber cut out, sleeved and rechambered to .44 Special or Russian, similar to sleeving a barrel.
  I'd contact John Taylor http://johntaylormachine.com/38.0.html. He's very well known for his work sleeving barrels and he sleeved the barrel of one of my old Winchester '73's. I removed the barrel (super easy on this type rifle), sent it to him and in 2 or 3 weeks had the barrel back with an invoice. That's right....he did the work, returned it, THEN asked for payment.

  CHT

Offline mtmarfield

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 394
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2019, 08:42:33 pm »
      Greetings, All!

   As You may know, I sold my Henry .44-40, and bought a Win 1866 "Musket" in .44WCF. I STILL WANT an A.Uberti Brass-Framed
Henry Military Model in .44Spl. ( .44R, actually... ). Just in case the Gun Gods are feeling propitious...

             M.T.Marfield
               5-02-19

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3477
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2019, 08:45:25 am »
Observation:  The .442 groove diameter of the .44 Henry flat is just as close to .45 Colt as it is to .44 Special.  Get a .45 Henry, modify the block for .45 Cowboy, and ballisticly you are there.  Neither case uses a Heel bullet, so the only advantage I can see to the special is it has "44" in the name.  Or just use .45 S&W and be happy.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3477
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2019, 08:52:30 am »
Observation:  Starline is making .41 special brass, which is an easy trim down to .44 Henry CF.  I know, as I have trimmed 100 of these down to use in my .440 Argentine Nagant.  (the Nagant round being pretty much a .44 HCF with a different head stamp)  And yes, I strangely enjoy making heeled bullet rounds . . .
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline mtmarfield

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 394
Re: Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2019, 09:58:22 pm »
      Greetings!

   I cut .41S&WM down to about 0.9" to make .44LCF for my OM F. Wesson Rifle. It's close...!

                   M.T.Marfield