Author Topic: Hunting load for the 44-40 with Unique powder  (Read 3276 times)

Offline Marshal Deadwood

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Hunting load for the 44-40 with Unique powder
« on: December 20, 2016, 04:29:03 pm »
I have an Accurate 430215c mold. That is for a 230 diam and 215 gr bullet correct ? The prob I have is for my Unique powder....I can't find a hunting load stated for a 215 gr lead bullet,,,,,,,,,,,,,that would make a good hunting load. Do any of you have a recipe for this bullet using Unique powder ? I'd really appreciate some help.

Marshal Deadwood

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Hunting load for the 44-40 with Unique powder
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2016, 11:21:13 pm »
My Good Marshall -

why look, here is a thread on this very topic:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=40544.0

yhs
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Offline Marshal Deadwood

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Re: Hunting load for the 44-40 with Unique powder
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2016, 07:20:20 am »
Thank you. Just what I needed.

MD

Offline Cholla Hill Tirador

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Re: Hunting load for the 44-40 with Unique powder
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2016, 11:53:16 pm »
  I will preface my own loads by saying that 44-40 data where Unique is concerned varies a lot. My Dad's '70's vintage Lyman manual in the handgun section shows a max load of 10.9 grs. with a 205 gr. bullet. In the rifle section, 10.2 grs. is the max load with a 215 gr. bullet.

   I cast this bullet (I didn't know about Mr. Kort's bullet design when I bought this mould):

  

 It weighs 220 grs. +/- a few 1/10ths. My Unique loads with the above bullet from my 1866 Uberti 24" Sporting Rifle are as follows:

 7.5 gr.- 1105 fps
 8.0 gr.- 1163 fps
 8.5 gr.- 1218 fps
 9.0 gr.- 1282 fps
 9.5 gr.- 1317 fps

 The 9.5 gr. load is really just for reference and I no longer use it and wouldn't recommend it. If you'll notice with the other loads, every .5 gr. increase in powder charge yielded somewhere around 55-65 fps gain in velocity. Notice though that when increasing from 9.0 gr. to 9.5 gr. the velocity yield dropped to 35 fps. This is a pretty good indication of diminishing returns, and there's simply no practical gain in another 35 fps.

  The best way I've found to wring the most power this cartridge is to use Swiss 3Fg. A heavily compressed load(2.5cc +/-) of it under this bullet was within a stones throw of 1400 fps. Even a fairly moderate charge of 2.2cc of the 3Fg ran the bullet 1331 fps. With this load I've had hours of fun shooting to a little beyond 300 yds. making good use of the ladder sight.



 The wind, blowing L-R was getting a little squirrely when I shot this group.

 Although I failed to record it, the target below, fired at 200 yds., was in all likelihood done so with the 9.0 gr. of Unique.



 Good luck and keep us posted.

  CHT
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 11:21:31 pm by Cholla Hill Tirador »

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Hunting load for the 44-40 with Unique powder
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2016, 04:00:17 pm »
Thanks Cholla, for the great info!


this part is particularly imporrtant, especially for the newer reloader ( emphasis added by me):
....
 The 9.5 gr. load is really just for reference and I no longer use it and wouldn't recommend it. If you'll notice with the other loads, every .5 gr. increase in powder charge yielded somewhere around 55-65 fps gain in velocity. Notice though that when increasing from 9.0 gr. to 9.5 gr. the velocity yield dropped to 35 fps. This is a pretty good indication of diminishing returns, and there's simply no practical gain in another 35 fps.
...

this is why it is very important to have access to a chrony;  "work up" a load, in small increments; and keep detailed records!
While it is not as detailed and insightful as a pressure trace, This kind of data, as posted by Cholla Hill, gives very good "hints" to the learened reloader about what is gong on. One can also make detailed observations of fired primers, and fired case measurements with a micrometer for further hints.

yhs
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Offline Bryan Austin

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Re: Hunting load for the 44-40 with Unique powder
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2019, 12:28:45 pm »
Thanks Cholla, for the great info!


this part is particularly imporrtant, especially for the newer reloader ( emphasis added by me):
this is why it is very important to have access to a chrony;  "work up" a load, in small increments; and keep detailed records!
While it is not as detailed and insightful as a pressure trace, This kind of data, as posted by Cholla Hill, gives very good "hints" to the learened reloader about what is gong on. One can also make detailed observations of fired primers, and fired case measurements with a micrometer for further hints.

yhs
prof marvel

I know ya'll don't believe me but I try hard not to re-kindle these old topics ;-)

Cholla, I love seeing your GONG hits.......!!!!!

Unique has been popular in the 44-40 revolvers for a long time. Back in 1930's, the standard max load for revolvers with 205gr hand cast lead bullets was up to 10.9gr @ 1,100fps @ 15,000 pounds of pressure (assume CUP) (approx. 12,690psi) from a 5 1/2" barrel. We all know Taffin and a few others push 12gr for stronger revolvers. I also assume Unique now may be a tad hotter than back then.

Using a PressureTrace II and an MGM 20" 1 1/4" diameter barrel....

7.9gr with a 205 LRNFP Lyman 427098 gave me 1,117fps @ 9,300psi (approx. 11,000CUP)  Lyman's 49th Max Load for Group I rifles like the Winchester 73' 12,000cup
9gr with a 200gr Laser Cast Magma BB gave me 1,300fps @ 12,500psi (approx. 15,000CUP)
10.5gr of Unique with a Lyman 427098 gives me 1,470fps @ 18,000psi (approx. 21,000cup) Winchester's "High Velocity" was 1,600fps @ 22,000cup with a JSP
Winchester's pressure's were lower with the .4255 dia. JSP than with larger dia. lead bullets
12gr with a 200gr Laser Cast Magma BB gave me 1,635fps @ 22,000psi (could be around 26,000CUP)

Back then, this 1937 data was only used for revolvers while rifle powders, to include Hercules 2400 was used in rifles. Sharpe's 1937 2400 load for 200gr lead rifles was 27.5gr @ 33,000 pounds of pressure...again I assume CUP. Could be around 28,000psi. Certainly not for weak action rifles or revolvers.

Again, today's powder charges may be different, but pressures are pressures...
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 12:44:52 pm by Bryan Austin »

Offline Bryan Austin

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Re: Hunting load for the 44-40 with Unique powder
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2019, 05:42:51 pm »
This should blow some minds!!!

"The Winchester bore diameter is .429. All available soft points are about .424. One shooter gets finest results by swaging .424 bullets to .429 for Winchester rifles. Remington and Marlin rifles measure .424, therefore factory bullets are satisfactory in those barrels. Properly loaded, this cartridge has more knockdown powder than a .30-.30" ~ Sharpe - 1937

 :o