Questioin on Lee bullet sizer

[Logan]

I have a 1886 Winch in 45/70.  I use 300gr, .458 jacketed bullets for hunting.  I am purchasing a RCBS 300gr .458 mold to make bullets for target practice.  The closest bullet sizer I've found is the Lee .457 dia sizer.

If I use the Lee sizer, would there be much difference in elevation for bullet groups between a 300gr .458 bullet and the resized .457 bullet?   

Hopefully that question is clear.

Thanks

[Coal Creek Griff]

Ideally, your cast bullets will be sized to match the bore of your rifle, or .001" to .002" larger (there is some leeway, personal preference and variations in rifles/loads, but that is the rule of thumb).  You'll want to slug your bore and make an accurate measurement.  If you do some searching online, you'll find how to do that, if you're not familiar with the procedure. The Lee sizing dies can also be honed out fairly easily; that's what I did to get a .458 die.  That's also online. Keep in mind that variations in mold production and alloys cause variations in the size of the bullets produced by the molds.  You'll want to do some casting and measuring there too.

CC Griff

[Delmonico]

The bullet likely can be shot with out sizing.

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[Blair]

A great deal of information has been published on this forum directing folks to slug the bore of their firearms to be able to know for sure the actual bore diameter of that firearm. Look for moulds and/or sizing dies that will allow you to duplicate that dia. depending on the lead mix you wish to use during your casting.

CCG offers some good suggestions. Personnel preference and a rather great deal of variations in bore diameters of the .45-70 chambers can be very suspect depending on the firearm.
My best,
 Blair

[Logan]

  Thank you.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

CCG is exactly right, the Lee dies can be easily honed out. Just run over to the Cast Boolit site where you'll find specific instructions. Just be aware that these dies are relatively soft and it doesn't take long at all to open them up a thousandth or two (or more if you're not careful, as I found out!).

  You don't say whether your 1886 is a new or old production. If it's new there's really no reason to slug the the barrel to find the groove (not bore) diameter. I've found new production rifles are practically always spot-on with regards to their respective groove diameters. Heck, I didn't even bother slugging my pair of ancient 1873's. Just cast and sized the bullets to what I presumed would be a thousandth or two over groove diameter and they both shoot fine with great accuracy.

  CHT

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The bullet likely can be shot with out sizing.

If a loaded round will chamber, I load cast bullets unsized in rifles.

If I am using smokeles powder, LEE liquid lube is very easy to apply. Alternatively, I use one inch wide gasfitters TEFLON tape in a manner akin to paper patching.


If for black powder, I apply SPG by hand. (Others may use a "pan-lube" process.)

[Delmonico]

If a loaded round will chamber, I load cast bullets unsized in rifles.

If I am using smokeles powder, LEE liquid lube is very easy to apply. Alternatively, I use one inch wide gasfitters TEFLON tape in a manner akin to paper patching.


If for black powder, I apply SPG by hand. (Others may use a "pan-lube" process.)

I am always amazed how people take a simple task and make it harder, long before they find out they have to.  The only time I run a cast bullet through a die is to seat a gascheck and I use a size only small enough to seat the check.

[Coal Creek Griff]

My Uberti 44 WCF rifles have difficulty chambering anything larger than .429.  Anything less than that and the accuracy with smokeless suffers.  My mold casts just a touch over .429 and I size to .429 so that they will chamber properly.  That's the only bullet that I'm really careful to size.  I suspect that people that shoot for long range ultra-accuracy may pay more attention to sizing.

CC Griff

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

Not all moulds cast a perfectly round bullet, so running them through a push-through die aids in concentricity thereby ensuring a more accurate bullet.

  It's all relative, really. Some are happy if their bullets hit a good size steel target a few feet away, others disappointed if they hit the edge of a 6" circle 100 yds. away. Each expectation produces different methods of handling ones bullets. Likewise, some folks just enjoy the extra steps that can be taken when casting ones own lead bullets.

   CHT

[Delmonico]

Both which are easy to figure out before worrying about a sizing die, if it was off round I would bitch to the mould maker if it was a new one.

Still simpler to find out if you have a problem before worrying about trying to fix it.   

They always told me that was the KISS principal, something people seem to forget about anymore.

[Drydock]

http://leeprecision.com/custom-lube-and-sizing-kit.html

If you must have one, order a .459.  But first try shooting them unsized. 

[Blackfoot]

As others have said, try shooting the bullets "as cast".  I have shot a lot of lead bullets in a .45/70 and never sized them.  The bullets were dropping out of the mould at .459, I just lubed them with liquid Alox and loaded them.  Up to .460 would have been fine in my Sharps and Marlin.  Your mileage probably won't vary.

  Blackfoot

[Delmonico]

If you have lots of time on your hands and want to do something really meaningful with your cast bullets, weigh them all and get a base as to what they should weigh and search them for unseen voids.   

A #8 lead shot weighs about 1 grain for reference, if you won't shoot a bullet with a void that size you can see, why do it with one you can't see?   I do it with every bullet I shoot that I really don't want it to miss a small target, sure made a lot of misses go away.   

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

If you have lots of time on your hands and want to do something really meaningful with your cast bullets, weigh them all and get a base as to what they should weigh and search them for unseen voids.   

A #8 lead shot weighs about 1 grain for reference, if you won't shoot a bullet with a void that size you can see, why do it with one you can't see?   I do it with every bullet I shoot that I really don't want it to miss a small target, sure made a lot of misses go away.   

  Exactly what I did when I was shooting High Power with cast bullets. But I also sized, as I didn't see any need in cutting corners. The results spoke for themselves.

   CHT

[Delmonico]

Well you should have mentioned it first because it is far more important to weigh them to make sure there are no voids, damn I gave everybody a chance first before I got all logical.    

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Most, but not all, voids show up on a visual check of the base. I do this as I sort the bullets from the drop box to plastic case trays. Most will be caught right at the casting bench. For pistols and CAS carbine use I go no further. For target rifle, it is time to get picky and weigh. Thank Dog for digital scales!

I think most of us missed this step as the OP wanted to know about sizing, which is down the road from sorting.

[Delmonico]

It is, but the sizing is not needed in most cases and is just an extra step.  Someone mentioned they just liked to mess with things and if so the sorting and weighing will do the most good.

Back to the original post, load the un-sized lubed bullets and if they chamber fine and shoot as good as you or the rifle can be expected to shoot, save the expense of the dies and the effort used to size them and use the time and money for something else, or as the old saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."   That is to often the start of more problems no matter what the endeavor. 

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 Take a large batch of bullets you've cast and carefully measure the diameters of a dozen or so with a micrometer. You will in all likelihood find minor differences in diameter between individual bullets and many moulds, even high end ones, will drop bullets whose diameters are slightly different where the mould blocks meet than they are 90° around from there. That's where sizing comes in handy. Is sizing required? Well, that depends on your expectations of your bullets. But logic would tell us that a bullet that starts out as round as possible will have the potential to shoot more accurately. That's why the folks who manufacture match bullets obsess over things such as this.

 CHT

[pony express]

Just thinking here(which may be dangerous) but, if the bullet starts out .001-.002 larger than groove diameter, as long as it's over groove diameter both at the mold parting line and all around, then when it come out the end of the barrel, it's going to be exactly as round as the barrel is, regardless of how round it is when it started.