Author Topic: 45 Schofield crimping?  (Read 4922 times)

Offline Cowtown

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45 Schofield crimping?
« on: January 25, 2016, 01:53:58 am »
Lee offers a 3 die set for 45 Schofield. It does not have the (4th) factory crimp die.

Is it necessary to use that 4th factory crimp die (the 3rd die normally puts a crimp) with ammo that will only be used in a revolver?

I am (only) guessing not.

I use the Lee FCD with my 45 Colt (revolver and rifle) with results that keep me happy.

Thanks for any help.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 02:00:44 am by Cowtown »

Offline Drydock

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2016, 03:40:25 am »
Its not necessary.  However, the Lee 45 Colt FCD has enough adjustment for the Schofield case if desired.  Or at least my 10 year old one does.
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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2016, 07:06:51 am »
I think you'll be fine without it. I don't use a FCD on the Schofield or 45 Colt cases. I just use the 3 die set.

I just use the FCD on the thinner 44-40 and 32-20 cases so I can seat and crimp in separate stages and not wrinkle a case.
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Offline Pettifogger

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2016, 10:33:50 am »
The FCD is not usually part of any die set.  It is an accessory die.  The seater die is also a crimper.

Offline Grapeshot

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2016, 12:17:11 pm »
I usually use a separate roll/taper crimp on all my .45 Colt or .45 Schofield cases.
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2016, 04:14:41 pm »
I must be deprived.  Or, is it Depraved??  Anyway, After loading and re-loading for a Looooooong time, I still don't own a Lee Factory
Crimp Die.  I have never felt I had a need for one. 
I load/re-load on a pair of Dillon 650s.  The 45 Colt die set is from Dillon and has the usual separate roll crimp die.  No Complaints.  The
45 Schofield die set is a combination of Dillon dies with an RCBS combination seat/crimp die.  Works a treat.  The Cowboy 45 Special
set is a combination of Dillon and Redding dies.  45 ACP seater with a Redding profile crimp for 45 Auto Rim.  Works a treat.  I personally
have seen no need for an additional Lee Factory Crimp die. 
Whatzit really do??

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Offline Montana Slim

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 04:29:48 pm »
Will add that I too use a separate taper crimp die on my .45 ACP (4-die setup).
I've used the same die set for 45 CS & would consider using it for Schofield & LC.
I like the FC dies for my 44-40 for same reasons as noted by Cliff.

The FC die is essentially a collet-style crimp - best description I can muster at the moment.
One first seats the bullet with the seater die, but having the roll crimp backed off completely.
Then run into the FC die.

The FC die uniformly crimps where it touches ....therefore, if one has a few 44-40's which are a bit "tweaked" from being stepped on & straightened, or the case mouth is deformed a smidge ...or rough, uneven in any way (aka well-used brass)...you still get a good crimp on the casemouth without deforming the case. For those unfamiliar with 44-40s....deformed rounds at the case mouth/shoulder does not necessarily chamber smoothly and can lead to FT chamber or extract issues in a rifle and a FT chamber situation with a revolver.

There is certainly nothing wrong with a roll crimp per the 3-die factory set in 45 Schofield ....especially if you only have a 3-hole press.
Especially with sturdy cartridge brass. Mostly a matter of personal preference.

Another benefit, IMO to using a separate crimping die is generally easier to setup & adjust the dies and easier to change bullet style (different bullets).

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Who also likes the FC die with 5.45x45
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Offline Drydock

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2016, 05:58:45 pm »
Just a point of clarity: the LFCD for straight case pistol rounds is NOT a collet type die.  It is a floating roll/taper crimp die (depending on application) with a carbide sizing ring to ensure chambering.  The ring is the real trick of the die, For instance, I load 32 acp using the 32 long FCD, as the little round and its chamber is very sensitive to bulging.  The Ring ensures the rounds chamber, every time.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 04:36:58 pm by Drydock »
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Offline superc

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2016, 04:35:31 pm »
Its not necessary.  However, the Lee 45 Colt FCD has enough adjustment for the Schofield case if desired.  Or at least my 10 year old one does.

So does mine.  Colt 1902 Philippine DA revolvers ptp[erly took a special FA round very similar to the older Schofield round.  My 3 piece Lee dies for 45 Colt crimp those just fine.

Offline Cowtown

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2017, 01:32:16 pm »
Wow. I am resurrecting my own thread...

I was about to ask a similar question and the search gave me my own thread.

Anyways...

Will the Lee three die set crimp a 45 Schofield enough to safely use in a lever action, avoiding any bullet set back in rounds in magazine? Or is there even enough recoil in a heavy rifle to affect the rounds?


Online Abilene

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2017, 03:51:58 pm »
...Will the Lee three die set crimp a 45 Schofield enough to safely use in a lever action, avoiding any bullet set back in rounds in magazine?...

Yes

Offline rickk

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2017, 11:20:56 am »
I started using separate crimp dies many years ago and never looked back.

With cast bullets, crimps often meant occasional rings of shaved lead around the case mouth - especially of cases were not perfectly trimmed before loading every time.

I no longer worry about that.


Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2017, 06:46:52 pm »
PILE ON ..... PILE ON ..... PILE ON ..... to Abilene!!!

YES!!

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Offline 1961MJS

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2019, 11:07:48 pm »
Hi

I'm planning on ordering a

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/814728/lyman-taper-crimp-die-45-s-and-w-schofield-45-acp-45-colt-long-colt-45-magnum-454-casull

Lyman Taper Crimp die for .45 Schofield and Long Colt for use in a revolver.  I have the Factory Crimp Die for the Colt.

An suggestions on how tightly to crimp the Schofield for a revolver?

Thanks

Mike
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2019, 12:30:44 pm »

If you're planning on using that particular taper crimp die for 45 schofield and 45 Colt for pistols, you would be making a mistake.  A).  That die is actually intended for 45 Mag Auto Pistol Cases.  Yes, the 45 Mag is about the same size as a 45 Colt case without the rim.  It head spaces on the case mouth.  The taper crimp is normally applied to bullets without a crimp groove.  An auto pistol does not have the same "in-line" recoil as a tube magazine rifle.

Most CAS loadings are reduced and have some issues with ignition.  Bullets with a crimp groove and a good roll crimp are recommended.  Also, when used in a rifle, with a taper crimp your liable to encounter "Turtles."  With properly designed bullets, the roll crimp should crimp right to the bottom of the crimp groove.  This will hold true for revolvers as well as rifles.  Should you happen to load with BP, the crimp is really critical.

In summation.  Skip the Taper Crimp die.  Should you want a really good roll crimp die, I would highly recommend the Redding 45 Profile Crimp Die for everything except 45 ACP.  Obviously, for 45 ACP, a Taper crimp is appropriate.

Offline 1961MJS

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Re: 45 Schofield crimping?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2019, 09:45:43 pm »
If you're planning on using that particular taper crimp die for 45 schofield and 45 Colt for pistols, you would be making a mistake.  A).  That die is actually intended for 45 Mag Auto Pistol Cases.  Yes, the 45 Mag is about the same size as a 45 Colt case without the rim.  It head spaces on the case mouth.  The taper crimp is normally applied to bullets without a crimp groove.  An auto pistol does not have the same "in-line" recoil as a tube magazine rifle.

Most CAS loadings are reduced and have some issues with ignition.  Bullets with a crimp groove and a good roll crimp are recommended.  Also, when used in a rifle, with a taper crimp your liable to encounter "Turtles."  With properly designed bullets, the roll crimp should crimp right to the bottom of the crimp groove.  This will hold true for revolvers as well as rifles.  Should you happen to load with BP, the crimp is really critical.

In summation.  Skip the Taper Crimp die.  Should you want a really good roll crimp die, I would highly recommend the Redding 45 Profile Crimp Die for everything except 45 ACP.  Obviously, for 45 ACP, a Taper crimp is appropriate.

Thanks Coffinmaker, changing the order after I type this sucker.

Later
Mike
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Division of Oklahoma