38 LC heeled case bulge?

[will52100]

I just took my Kirst converted 51 navy out back and ran 60 rounds through it.  Out of the 60 rounds 3 would not chamber and 5 were very difficult to chamber.  The ones that I managed to knock into the chamber(staying clear of the primer and not hitting THAT hard) showed a ring around the middle.  After I got back I miked everything out and the ones that chambered fine were .378 in the middle, the ones that didn't want to chamber had a bulge at .3825.  This happened with both new and multiple fired brass.

I load on a Lee loadmaster and use a 9mm size die to get a little tighter mouth for the later crimp on the heel based bullet.  I'm wondering if I should put a 38 size die without the de-capping pin to size the base just a bit more?

Thoughts?

Thanks

[Professor Marvel]

My Dear Will -

I hope Hoof Hearted or one of the other Kirst affiliated individuals will chime in, but it is my understanding that the Kirst cylinder chambers are made to .38 spcl specs, and then those for "long colt" are bored thru - thus you may want to size initially with .38 spcl dies.

However, your mileage may vary so A chamber casting and a micrometer will tell you exactly what you have and thus how to size ...

yhs
prof mrvl

[pony express]

the bulge is way to far down to be caused by the bullet. I would full length resize them with a regular 38 die instead of the 9mm one. the 9 has a slightly tighter neck, but it's case is somewhat tapered, so it isn't sizing the lower part of the straight .38 case. I use a regular .38 die to size my 38LC, and have no problems with neck tension.

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[will52100]

Thanks, that was what I was thinking.  This is the first I've run into this issue, I've loaded and shot several hundred of the heeled bullets with good results, so don't know why it's cropping up now.  I did take the dies out and drill out the center section of the die holder for a small flashlight, so I might be off when I put them back in by a 1/8 turn or so.

The kirst is bored straight through, and the barrel is .375, hence the need for heel based ammo.  The R&D has one available with a .357 throat.

[Will Lynchem]

I agree with Pony Express. Try using a decaper with a full length case sizing die. Also invest in a case guage. Quick, easy to check size of your ammo after reloading.  I have one for every caliber I reload.  Don't leave home without it!   

[will52100]

I've got a .357 case gage, the ones that were bulged wouldn't go in.  I put a 38 special sizing die on the priming station without the decaping rod and it sized the bulge down.  I figure since I've got about 600 loaded I'll be pulling around 50-100 before all is said and done.  Don't know why I didn't run into this before.  I set the press up and checked each one for the first couple of dozen, then every once in a while, then haven't checked in the last couple hundred rounds.

Since there's doubt about the fit of my ammo, I guess it means I need to shoot it up and reload again.

[Montana Slim]

Could this be from seating depth of the bullet/crimping. This is a possible scenario....at least in my mind. I've only tinkered with Heel Bullet loads for one of my Pa's Colt 1861 RMs.

Slim

[will52100]

I thought about that, but the heel base bullet shoulder is seated just a hair from touching the case mouth.  All cases were trimmed on a forster case trimmer, what a job that was, even with a battery drill.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I only load a few heeled bullets in my .41LC. I place the heels into the case mouth by hand to ensure they go in straight and don't begin a bulge. I'm not sure that this fits into the requirements of a competitor requiring loads of loads.

[will52100]

I hear you, but I'm not a competitor, just like to have lots of loaded ammo and love my progressives for that.  Of course I still have to crimp on a single stage, but that' still better than casting single cavity hollow base rounds for these conversions.  The seating die seats the bullet to the same depth every time, just have to make sure it's adjusted rite so I don't dig the bullet into the case.  Even if it did, it's cast from 20-1, so the bullets are pretty soft.

I've run a few of the bulged cases through the press with the added 38 sizing die and they all chamber properly now.  They are a tight fit in the case gauge, but slip into the kirst with ease.  Only thing I can think of is that after firing they were swelling to fit the chambers and the 9mm size die didn't size far down enough, or even caused a bit of bulge.

[Baltimore Ed]

I reload heel base .38 Colt for my 1892 DAs. I've built a swager to reshape lead .357 RN bullets, upside down, so the lube grooves are outside of the case. The last thing I do is to run the loaded case through a .38 spcl sizer die. I tried my heel base rds in my 2 Colts at our WASA club match recently. They shot great. It is a lot of work to make the heel base loads but it's cool to shoot 100 year old guns. The hardest thing in shooting those old Colts was the 20 lb? trigger pulls. I can understand why the government adopted the 1911.

[will52100]

They are kinda cool.  An inside lubed bullet is a better design, but I'm frankly surprised at how well the outside lubed works, should be surprised since 22LR is still outside lubed.

The only thing that slows me down is the need to crimp on a single station.  If I could crimp on the LM it'd be just as fast loading as inside lubed.

As far as lubing goes, I've melted black powder lube and just dipped the ends of the bullets, and while on the range just lubed the ends with crisco.  Both seem to work fine, if a little more lube than needed.