Author Topic: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?  (Read 5746 times)

Offline yahoody

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Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« on: July 19, 2019, 09:22:28 pm »


It is how Colt made them from about 1896 to 1931.  So who has a USFA with  a cross pin frame and V notch rear sight and a tapered small front blade? (not the bigger U notch ad squared front blade.)   I know  of one for sure that a collector has and now a second gun I've had my hands on.  It has been my "holy grail" USFA gun for a long while.  Never thought I'd see or find one for sale.

Pictures coming soon.

Speak up if yo have one and posting a serial number would be  nice.

I  think some/all of them were Colt copies size wise.   But a picture shoudl tell as will other small details.  Thanks and good hunting!
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Offline yahoody

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2019, 01:03:37 am »
No one?  Really?   I did find a third but it is a USPFA gun from all Uberti parts except the barrel is stamped USPFA.   Hammer has the screw in it and extra safety parts.

Ben's and mine can't be the only two USA made guns?

"The USFA Single Action re?-creates the classic Colt Single Action Army. It’s available built on a cross pin frame with a square-notch rear sight and a square front blade, or a black powder frame with a V notch rear sight and blade front sight. Available calibers include .45 LC, .44 Special, .44-40, .38 Special, .38-40 and .32-20."
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 05:25:14 pm by yahoody »
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Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2019, 05:15:00 pm »
Ah My Dear Yahoody -

I have to wonder if
a) everyone is out playing
or
b) you have the only ones
or
c) nobody else noticed LOL

just a bump for an interesting topic

yhs
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Offline yahoody

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2019, 05:29:55 pm »
Thanks Professor. ;D  I too find it interesting as it was a gun I would have liked to have ordered back in the day from USFA.  For a good many years, and I like to think some of the best Colt production years, that is how Colt made them. 

USFA  made much bigger sights on their cross pin frames with a bigger notch and blade than Colt ever has.  The old Colts had a very thin, tapered front and a tiny V, both of which my gun has.  Even the Uberti and Pietta BP frames and V notch guns have bigger V notch than Colt ever did.

Hopefully some others will eventually  follow along.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 05:40:24 pm by yahoody »
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Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2019, 07:01:54 pm »
My Dear Yahoody

the smaller sights
crosspin

supposedly only on BP frame

It is an interesting anomalie anenomie oddity.
perhaps a very early example?

photos? serial number range?

yhs
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Offline yahoody

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2019, 08:13:42 pm »
Not all that early on the guns.  USA made USFA.  Just found and 3rd one USFA made.  4 total.
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Offline Rex Mahan

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2019, 07:17:38 pm »
I just read in  the USFA catologue that you could order the gun with sight variations

Offline yahoody

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2019, 09:20:25 pm »
I am holding a unfired, 4 3/4" version in 45 Colt as I type this.  Black plastic grips, dome blue and Turnbull case colors (frame is marked inside the hammer slot as a Turnbull gun).  Never seen that before or since in all the  USFA guns I have examined.   US two line address barrel markings, cone firing pin, hand checkered 1st Gen hammer.  Frame has a three line, three date roll mark and a firing pin bushing.  The actual V rear sight is very close to original Colt 1st Gen size and not the larger Uberti V notch size.   Cylinder gap on this gun is .002".   Which about a third of the typically, small .006" +/- USFA, USA made specs.

Interesting gun for sure.  Too bad they didn't have Turnbull do a carbona blue job on the gun.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 09:35:57 pm by yahoody »
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Offline GaryG

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2019, 12:02:10 pm »
The cross pin frame V notch rear sight was due to a programming error.  Can't remember how many frames came out before it was caught.  They were all turned into guns and sold to various dealers.  All dealers were told what they were getting and no one passed.  Regarding the letter in the hammer channel, these were used to identify the lot of steel used for the frames.  This was done for awhile then dropped.

Offline yahoody

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2019, 12:08:39 pm »
Thanks much Gary I really appreciate the info.  By the serial number it looks like the guns were right at the start of all USA made guns/frames.    Do you remember any other info?  Seems to be a really hard gun to find.   Ben's later gun with the same features is a Old Armory Original.  Was that a much later production/custom order gun or a gun saved from the batch you mention that were made in error?   Are we talking several dozen guns?  More or less if you cared to guess from memory?   

The mark in the hammer slot is clearly a DT. D overlayed on the T.   That marked a particular type of steel and not Doug Turnbull?   The frame has been verified as color cased by Turnbull?  Appreciate any info you can remember and care to share.

   
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 12:16:54 pm by yahoody »
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Offline GaryG

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2019, 02:14:52 pm »
It does look lie a DT but Turnbull did all the USFA guns with the exceptional of a small number done by Classic Guns in IL.  That is where we stamped the lot number. 

The OAO in theory were supposed to be an exact copy (dimensionally) of a Colt.  However, the only difference between the "standard" USFA gun and the OAO was a smaller cylinder window to fit the smaller Colt sized cylinder.  To put it another way, the standard USFA cylinder will not fit into the OAO. 

Is the one in the picture an OAO? 

Has anyone seen the USFA "House Pistol"? 

Offline yahoody

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2019, 02:43:27 pm »
>It does look lie a DT but Turnbull did all the USFA guns with the exceptional of a small number done by Classic Guns in IL.  That is where we stamped the lot number. 

No question it is a stamped DT there.  Odd never seen another USFA gun stamped this way.  I just checked a dozen guns and saw the batch numbers but nothing like the DT on this gun. 

>The OAO in theory were supposed to be an exact copy (dimensionally) of a Colt.  However, the only difference between the "standard" USFA gun and the OAO was a smaller cylinder window to fit the smaller Colt sized cylinder.  To put it another way, the standard USFA cylinder will not fit into the OAO. 

Makes sense, this  gun won't take a USFA USA made cylinder.  I just thought I needed to fit it.  Not wanting to bother on a new gun.  But now I understand why  a new one wouldn't drop in.  Thank you.

> Is the one in the picture an OAO?

I didn't think so but that makes more sense now that you have reminded me of the cylinder size and the DT stamp being so odd. 

>Has anyone seen the USFA "House Pistol"?

I've not...lets see it.   Thanks again Gary.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 02:58:31 pm by yahoody »
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Offline GaryG

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2019, 07:25:55 am »
Only one "House Pistol" ever made.  Ejectorless frame, tapered 4" barrel with HOUSE PISTOL just before the caliber.  As I remember had a non standard hammer. 

Offline yahoody

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Re: Cross pin frame, V notch sights?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2019, 11:25:14 am »
Sounds like a neat gun.  Should have been done in .450 Boxer :)
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