Webley .455 reloading?

[ammodave]

I have my eye on an uncut Webley Mk IV in .455.  I was all set to make a purchase and then I started to look for reloading components.  Anyone have a good source for brass?  Can I easily modify some other brass (45 Colt or 45 Auto rim)?  I'd prefer to buy an unmodified pistol but I suppose I could shift gears and start looking for a 45acp version if brass is going to be a problem.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Use the search function for earlier debates on the same topic.

The best cases to alter are .45 Cowboy Special. ,45 Schofield cases, shortened, will give a wider rim for the star extractor. I thin the rim by hand with a triangular file with one side ground smooth, but this tiresome for more than the first one or six. A Machinist friend or hobbyist can figure out much faster ways to do it.  HORNADY used to sell .455 Webley Mk II cases (the shorter ones.) but I'm not sure if they are still available. Fiochi have sold .455 Corto ammo, similar to the Mk II case, but again I'm not sure if they are still available.

.45 Auto dies with a .45 Colt shellholder work quite well and most .45 cast bullets work. I use the LEE .45 auto case trim set-up when shortening cases.

[CPL Jayhawker Jake]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/777836/bertram-reloading-brass-455-webley-box-of-20?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Found that.  Expensive as all get out, but might be worth it.  Maybe.   

On the plus side, the .455 Dies aren't terribly overpriced from Midway:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/197309/lee-carbide-3-die-set-455-webley-mark-ii

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[ammodave]

I've got everything I need to reload except the brass.  The Midway Bertram brass at $2.00 apiece is pretty dear but that may be the only game i town.  I've got a bunch of .45AR;  how hard s it to thin the rims?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I've got everything I need to reload except the brass.  The Midway Bertram brass at .50 apiece is pretty dear but that may be the only game i town.  I've got a bunch of .45AR;  how hard s it to thin the rims?

If you have a machinist do it, it would be roughly the same effort. If you are trying to file the rims FROM THE FRONT, it will not be an easy job. If the Bertram brass has the wider rim that works best on the star extracter, perhaps .50 per case is not that bad of a deal.

MIdway is charging $39.99 per 20 cases!! If you can get them for less;- GRAB THEM!

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/777836/bertram-reloading-brass-455-webley-box-of-20

Another link;  http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-124965.html

A link to an earlier thread on this forum;  http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=39738.0

[The Pathfinder]

Dave, I ran into the same problems when I picked up a Mk VI awhile back. Thought I was getting one that had been shaved for .45 ACP but turned out it was in .455. Found one box of 20 cartridges here, another of 50 half way cross the state. Do a search for Palmetto Arms, I seem to remember they had some, at least that's where I got a couple of boxes. Nobody had any brass at the time and the easiest way I found was to buy the loaded cartridges and get them that way. Also got to have a lot of fun emptying the brass. 

[ammodave]

I don't have a problem buying loaded ammunition but the only thing I've found is Fiocchi which apparently has a bad reputation for fragile brass.

[Virginia Gentleman]

NEVER SHOOT A WEBLEY THAT HAS A MODIFIED CYLINDER WITH FACTORY SPEC .45 ACP AMMO EVER!!!!!!!
......PLEASE READ AN IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE FOR WEBLEY REVOLVER OWNERS CUT FOR .45 ACP/.45 AUTO-RIM.....
 Here is a warning that Grant Rombough put together that I think is critical to have pinned to this page....****Warning for Webley Mark V and Mark VI Owners for guns with shaved cylinders****This caution is directed at owners of .455 Webley revolvers - or any other revolver originally chambered in .455 for that matter - that have been converted in some manner to chamber and fire .45 ACP cartridges in moon clips (or .45 Auto Rim cartridges without moon clips)

 You will likely have been told (or have read) that it is fine to shoot "factory" or "GI Spec" .45 ACP (or .45 Auto Rim) cartridges in your altered .455 revolver, and you may well already have put many such rounds through your revolver without mishap.

 Please be aware that in the view of many who are familiar with these revolvers IT IS NOT SAFE TO FIRE SUCH ROUNDS.

 Please consider these facts -

 1. The operating pressure for the Mark VI Webley revolver (the last, and strongest, of the .455 Webley service revolvers) was a maximum of 13200PSI (i.e. six 'long tons' of 2200 lbs).

 2. The standard operating pressure generated by milspec and full factory loads of .45 ACP ball ammunition is 19,000PSI.

 3. The pressure of .45 ACP milspec and standard factory loads exceeds the proof load for the Mark VI Webley revolver.

 4. The dimensions of the chamber throats on Webley service revolvers are a bit variable, but generally are smaller than bore diameter for some reason - but this system worked well with the original hollowbase bullet design, which was quite soft (20/1 lead/tin) and non-jacketed. These soft bullets swage down passing through the chamber throat (.... my own view is that this was intentional, to get the most out of the relatively small powder charge, and thus maximize the velocity produced ....) but then the base expands nicely to engage the rifling in the bore. However, the general consensus is that jacketed bullets (such as those loaded in most GI-spec .45ACP ammo) can work to dramatically increase the already excessive chamber pressure generated by such rounds.

 5. Furthermore, the earlier models of .455 Webley service revolver were not as strong as the Mark VI. Indeed, the Mark I, Mark II and Mark III revolvers were in fact designed for black powder loads.

 Although it cannot be denied that many .455 Webley revolvers have survived being subjected for a long time to standard .45 ACP ammunition, that is equivalent to having been fed a steady diet of proof loads. Simply put, it is a testament to the sturdiness of Webley service revolvers, but can hardly be considered either safe or advisable! It is best to handload these shaved Webleys with lead bullets in the .452-455" size range ad 230-270 grains in weight in either .45 ACP or .45 Auto-Rim cases downloaded to 620-710 fps. This is the only way to safely enjoy shooting a shaved Webley.

 Here is what can happen if you do use .45 ACP GI ball in a shaved or cut Webley. Handloading is the only safe way to shoot these guns with lead bullets, softer is better and so is hollow base, in either .45 ACP or .45 Auto-Rim cases downloaded to .455 pressures, with velocity around 620-710 fps. Lead bullets in the 250-270 grain range do best for the Webley's sight regulation, but some have had great success with cast bullets in the 200-230 grain range. Be safe and go easy on these "Empire Building" old warhorses...

[Virginia Gentleman]

I don't have a problem buying loaded ammunition but the only thing I've found is Fiocchi which apparently has a bad reputation for fragile brass.

A fellow I saw on the internet used a propane torch to anneal his .455 Webley brass from Fiocchi with fewer split or cracked cases.  They seemed to last longer too.

[Virginia Gentleman]

Dave, I ran into the same problems when I picked up a Mk VI awhile back. Thought I was getting one that had been shaved for .45 ACP but turned out it was in .455. Found one box of 20 cartridges here, another of 50 half way cross the state. Do a search for Palmetto Arms, I seem to remember they had some, at least that's where I got a couple of boxes. Nobody had any brass at the time and the easiest way I found was to buy the loaded cartridges and get them that way. Also got to have a lot of fun emptying the brass. 

Do you handload the cases?