Author Topic: Historic Photos/GAF weapons  (Read 153926 times)

Offline pony express

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #340 on: November 06, 2014, 09:39:03 pm »
Rattlesnake Jack is correct then the person in the photo is a sailor doing shore duty, not technically a "Marine" as we think of them, the German Marines of the time were the Seebattalions.

The long S-71 Sword Bayonet was not issued only with the 1871 rifle, it could be used also with the 71/84, and the GEW88. The III Seebattalon during the Peking siege were equipped with GEW88s and S-71 bayonets.

German colonial uniforms is a great site, I was going to try messaging the owner about this pic, but had "technical difficulties" with the "contact us" portion of his site, so I posted on the forum he moderates on Axis History Forum.

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #341 on: November 06, 2014, 09:46:19 pm »
I gather that the "Kaiserliches Marinekorps" and the "Seebattalions" were two different entities or branches of service ..... but what the difference was exactly, I don't know .....  ::)
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Charles Isaac

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #342 on: November 07, 2014, 03:04:33 am »
Yep, he's a Sailor  :D

Wiki has a good explanation-

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiserliche_Marine

"The Imperial German Navy was the Imperial Navy (German: Kaiserliche Marine) "

"The Marines were referred to as Seebataillone (sea battalions). "
.

Offline HOROLOGIST007

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #343 on: November 07, 2014, 06:40:23 am »
To all
Thanks really impressive discussions and support.
Anyone care, based on that additional research to make a guess to a date?

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #344 on: November 07, 2014, 12:34:45 pm »
I can report on some further sleuthing I've done relating to this German photo, but can offer little more, I fear, beyond the fact that i am beginning to think that it may well be as late as WWI .... but still can't pin it down more exactly ..... ???

It occurred to me to try to enlarge and enhance the chap's head to see if I could make out any writing on his cap tally ..... thinking that if i could make out the name of a ship, it might be possible to find out the dates that ship was in service ..... but that was a bust.

However, on that same German bayonet website, I did discover a photo of another chap, almost identically uniformed and equipped.  It seems almost certain that this second photo was taken at the same time and location as the other image - the background may even be the other end of the same dugout entrance  -



And there is some writing on this fellow's hat tally!



However, it doesn't appear to be a ship's name, but is apparently a generic "unit title" - i.e. Kaiserliches Marinekorps .... similar to the title clearly legible on the cap tally in this studio portrait -



One reason I am beginning to think that these images may be of World War I vintage is that I am aware that most of the German Imperial fleet spent the war blockaded in its harbors by the Royal Navy, and a great many sailors were diverted to land service .... perhaps even in rear-echelon postings, or at least very quiet areas of the Front, in view of their relative lack of land warfare training, and possibly also due to the fact that they were armed with obsolete weapons .....

At any rate, with these two images in hand, perhaps you could ask for more exact details and dating of the photographs from the owner of the bayonet website (http://www.bajonett.de/) or on other sites, such as -
- http://users.skynet.be/fa972307/English/index.htm
- http://www.sms-navy.com/

This chap even has a Pinterest page (as yet rather small) entitled 'Kaiserliche Marines, Matrosen & Marinekorps" - https://www.pinterest.com/maxstiebritz1/kaiserliche-marines-matrosen-marinekorps/
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #345 on: Today at 08:03:07 am »

Offline HOROLOGIST007

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #345 on: November 07, 2014, 01:00:00 pm »
Thanks, truly appreciate your efforts.
In the interests of proper history, I am dating (if I use the photo) to WWI.

If anyone can date it earlier - there a BIG thanks!

to-day I met Ludwig Oechlin thec inventor of the Ulysse Nardin "Freak Watch" and many other Ulesse Nardin patented fantastic complications.
This man know everything about wristwatches.  But he was MIGHTY amazed at my early photographs of soldiers/sailers/nurses from Boer war/WWI wearing a wristwatch
and the photo from 1888 of three officers wearing wristlets blew him away!!!
A

Adam

Offline S. Quentin Quale, Esq.

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #346 on: November 07, 2014, 07:42:43 pm »
I'm not enough of a botanist to ID plants so I can't place the location of the photo.  Germany, however, did have interests in places outside of Europe where one might have found "beached" sailors in numbers.  The German concessions on the Shantung Peninsula, China and German East Africa come to mind.  There were other possessions in West Africa, IIRC.  They even owned some Pacific islands (but that photo does not suggest to me an island).

During this time of empire building the use of naval landing forces was pretty common.  Marine detachments were usually small in all navies (even if the ships were rather large) and many smaller ships didn't carry marines at all.  I would bet that the "military" training and experience of sailors deployed on ships in colonial waters would have been more significant than their European comrades.

The photos are fascinating.  Thank you for posting them.

SQQ

Offline HOROLOGIST007

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #347 on: November 07, 2014, 07:50:19 pm »
OK, let me share some too.
This is very cool, because of the massive protected leather wristlet watch and I found the history of the soldier



Alan Bigg was born at Nairne, SA on 9 March 1895, the son of Richard and Harriet Louisa (nee Atkinson) who ran a general store in the town. Alan and his brothers attended Nairne Public School until 1905 when the family moved to a farm near Echunga, and they were schooled at the Hahndorf Academy. Alan served in the senior cadets and citizen forces and was apprenticed as an electrical engineer to Newton McLaren in Leigh Street, Adelaide from 1910 until he enlisted. While he was at Newton McLaren he lived in a boarding house in Norwood.

With his father's permission, on 16 June 1915 he enlisted under regimental number 1419 in the 11th reinforcements of the 3rd Light Horse Regiment. He arrived in Egypt in late November 1915, and received training as a signaller using semaphore, heliograph and telephone before joining A Squadron, 3rd Light Horse Regiment. He was kept very busy manning observation posts along the front with the Turks around Girga between February and April 1916. He returned to Zeitoun for more signals instruction in May 1916, then rejoined the regiment in mid June 1916 when they were operating near Romani.

After going on several fighting patrols in the area, he was with A Squadron during the Turkish attack on Mount Meredith in the early stages of the Battle of Romani on 4 August 1916. He was shot through the right foot during the fighting withdrawal of 1st Light Horse Brigade. The regimental doctor couldn't treat him due to the battle conditions, so he propped his foot on his horse's feedbag and rode back to the 2nd Light Horse Field Ambulance where they dressed his foot and evacuated him back to Cairo where two days later his foot was operated on. After examination, a medical board determined that he would be unfit for further service because of his wound. He left Egypt to return to Australia, and after a short stopover in Melbourne, returned to Adelaide on 2 October 1916. He was treated at 7th Australian General Hospital at Keswick Barracks for six months after his discharge in March 1917.

Before the war ended Alan, his brother Lloyd and their parents moved from Echunga to Adey Rd, Blackwood to finish building the house that Alan and Lloyd's brother Lyn had been building before he enlisted. Lyn died of wounds during the War. Alan worked for another engineering firm in 1918, then on ships of the Adelaide Steamship Company until 1922. He married Dorothea Alice Hewett on 20 October 1923 at the Blackwood Methodist Church, and they had two children, Margaret and Robert. He worked as a carpenter on the '1000 homes' project in Colonel Light Gardens in the 1920's, then turned to poultry farming in Ascot Park during the Depression. His wife passed away in 1975, and he remained at Ascot Park until shortly before he passed away in 1984 at the age of 89 and was cremated at Centennial Park. His name is inscribed on the Echunga War Memorial.

Offline Charles Isaac

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #348 on: November 09, 2014, 03:59:50 am »
Fascinating biography Horologist007.

I never gave much thought to the evolution of military time pieces. I learn something new every time I come here!

Offline pony express

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #349 on: November 09, 2014, 09:23:57 am »
Thanks for the links RSJ, especially the one with the story of the Kaiserliches Marines. Seems they served on the same area throughout the war, although I suspect that the photos we are looking at were from early in the war, most likely later on they had more standardized weapons, and probably lost their sailor uniforms in favor of some sort of Feld grau and steel helmets, at least for field wear if not for dress.

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #350 on: Today at 08:03:07 am »

Offline HOROLOGIST007

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #350 on: November 09, 2014, 09:29:30 am »
Two weeks ago I gave a webinar on "The beginning of the wristwatch" - Its free and lots of cool photos of officers/soldiers wearing wristwatches from 1880 to 1920s.  You can view it for free here@
https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/recording/8035670043014726658

I give another on 16th November, it also has a lot of cool photos, you can register for free here:
https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/476895938385409025

Its free
You can read about them here:
http://watchnews.nawcc.org/

I think all will find them interesting
Regards
Adam
PS- Please tell your friends of Webinar 2 on Sunday 16th!
Adam

 

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