Long gun .38 Special powders

[LarryS]

I have a nice gun collection (10) with many of the hand guns and all of the long guns in the .22LR area.  With .22 so very hard to find, I have added two hand guns in the .38 Special caliber which is easily available here in New England.  To hold costs down I have been reloading the .38 Special rounds.  Adding a .38 Special long gun is now a logical choice but all the reloading data for .38 Special are hand gun loads which I know, in this case, can be used in a rifle.

Well, .38 Special hand gun powder is as scarce as .22 LR thus somewhat negating the move to the rifle; however, we do have shelves and shelves of rifle powder available.  It has always been said “Hand Gun powder for Hand Guns and Rifle powder for Long Guns.”

So does anyone have any experience using rifle powder in .38 Special to be ONLY shot in a long gun made for .38 Special.  The gun I am considering is a Rossi .38/.357 M92 with 24” SS Octagon barrel.  Also please note that my Cimerron/Uberti 1851 Richards-Mason Open Top Navy Conversion only shoots .38 Special and so I don’t want to change the Dillon press for .357 Magnum.

Thanks in advance … Larry S.

[Blackfoot]

If you can't find the data you need in a manual just make a call the Hodgdon powder.  The techs will be glad to help you.

Blackfoot

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I looked for an article on this point but couldn't find what I thought I remembered.  PS: I'm an oldtimer!?

The suggestions I can come up with are;
-  look to manufacturers data  for the same loads for rifle and pistol.
-  load for the pistol, then try it in the rifle.
-  avoid very light "mousephart loads". (no lighter than starting load data.)
-  look for a longer bullet so you can load for the Richard-Mason but still have an oal long enough for the '92  (See Big-Lube.)
-  wadcutters and semi-WC bullets may not feed smoothly in the carbine.

My experience is with a R-M and an 1866 in .38. I do not have a .357 carbine so no direct experience there.

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[Stu Kettle]

some shotgun powders work well in pistol cartridges.  I use Red Dot, 3.4 g under a 158 RNFP works well & feeds nicely through my wife's '66.  Found the recipe here:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/default.aspx

If you can't find Alliant powders, try this one:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

[Blackfoot]

BTW, I do as a lot of others, load within recommendations and shoot in both rifle and pistol.

Blackfoot

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

BTW, I do as a lot of others, load within recommendations and shoot in both rifle and pistol.

Blackfoot

I agree.  The .38 Spl is a very easy and flexible round to reload

[Stu Kettle]

And these days reloading them is less expensive than buying .22 rimfire.

[Pettifogger]

I have a nice gun collection (10) with many of the hand guns and all of the long guns in the .22LR area.  With .22 so very hard to find, I have added two hand guns in the .38 Special caliber which is easily available here in New England.  To hold costs down I have been reloading the .38 Special rounds.  Adding a .38 Special long gun is now a logical choice but all the reloading data for .38 Special are hand gun loads which I know, in this case, can be used in a rifle.

Well, .38 Special hand gun powder is as scarce as .22 LR thus somewhat negating the move to the rifle; however, we do have shelves and shelves of rifle powder available.  It has always been said “Hand Gun powder for Hand Guns and Rifle powder for Long Guns.”

So does anyone have any experience using rifle powder in .38 Special to be ONLY shot in a long gun made for .38 Special.  The gun I am considering is a Rossi .38/.357 M92 with 24” SS Octagon barrel.  Also please note that my Cimerron/Uberti 1851 Richards-Mason Open Top Navy Conversion only shoots .38 Special and so I don’t want to change the Dillon press for .357 Magnum.

Thanks in advance … Larry S.

An overly simplistic statement.  The .38 Special is not a rifle caliber.  It is a handgun round you are shooting out of a rifle.  Doesn't change the internal ballistics of the cartridge.  You aren't going to put any "rifle" powders in a .38 Special and have any success.  Stick to the fast burning pistol/shotgun powders.

[Hans Christian]

My advice would be to buy some pistol powder online and pay the hazmat charge.  Get a few pounds to reduce the unit cost.

[Pettifogger]

My advice would be to buy some pistol powder online and pay the hazmat charge.  Get a few pounds to reduce the unit cost.

Have you been following the market?  Where would you buy such powder?  I have had pistol powder on back order with several on-line reloading companies for over six months.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I did what I had advised;- Looked up a load on the Hodgdon site. The only powder they list that is used in rifles (for mid-range loads mostly) is 4227. Not the best for what you need, per our discussions, but it does fit your OP.

Does your local shop have any?  Otherwise, almost any available shotgun or pistol powder might work, but do your homework before spending the hard-earned!

[hammer1]

The "boss lady", has a 1873 special sporting in 357. She shoots a 38 special load I worked up with 158 gr rnfps, and trailboss. She mostly plinks with it, but it will hit steel at 100 with the standard sights.

[LarryS]

Thank you all for your advice which I take very seriously.  I posted to this forum because, of all the forums on the web, this one has the most intelligent advice.

The use of rifle powder in a .38 Special shot from a rifle was just a bit of “brainstorming” as a possible way of getting around the .22LR and handgun powder shortages.  As expected, no one seems to have any “experience” in this area and … from the sound of things, for very good reasons.

And again, thank you all.

Larry S.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I think I speak for cascity on this; You're Welcome.

I hope we have helped. Think more of developing a dual purpose round. Start by trying your usual load for the '51 R-M, and just firing the same load in your '92. In most cases that will work just fine.

Keep looking for shotgun/pistol powders. The word is that more powder is showing up, but in a sporadic fashion.

Have a list of possible powders from your research in your wallet and start spooking around. Don't deal with any hoarders at exorbitant prices!

I trust that you will stick around.  And; That recommendation for TRAILBOSS is a good one. Put that on your list as well.

[Rattlesnake Slim]

Whichever powder(s) you end up using, most 92's don't like a final overall length of less than 1.5". Save yourself some time by starting there and working longer if that doesn't feed reliably.

[Hans Christian]

Back to the original question, 4227 is not the best choice for 38 Special.  I tried it years ago as I have several pounds of it.  While it is a good choice for 357 magnum, loading it at the lower 38 Special pressures the combustion is not complete resulting in a lot of unburned powder in the gun.

Is it possible, YES.  Is it optimal? NO

Pistol/shotgun powders are popping up here and there in stores and on-line. Luck and diligence are needed to make a score.

A search of Gunbroker will reveal that you can buy suitable powder for a $20 or so premium per pound.  This would save time if you want to get shooting.

Check with local shooters to see if someone will share with you.  Even a few ounces will get you started.  A pound of powder can yield up to 1000 shots per pound.  There was a local cowboy shooter that I sold a bottle of powder to so he could keep shooting.  It's the cowboy way after all!

Since you are new to handloading, a couple of different powder types may be fun to work with.  For example, Bullseye or Titegroup on the fast side to Unique or Universal on the slower side for 38 Special. Of course variety may be a luxury at this point.

This powder shortage really is a drag.  Fortunately I have odds and ends of old powder stocks to use up.

[w44wcf]

........Well, .38 Special hand gun powder is as scarce as .22 LR thus somewhat negating the move to the rifle; however, we do have shelves and shelves of rifle powder available.  It has always been said “Hand Gun powder for Hand Guns and Rifle powder for Long Guns.”

So does anyone have any experience using rifle powder in .38 Special to be ONLY shot in a long gun made for .38 Special.  The gun I am considering is a Rossi .38/.357 M92 with 24” SS Octagon barrel.  Also please note that my Cimerron/Uberti 1851 Richards-Mason Open Top Navy Conversion only shoots .38 Special and so I don’t want to change the Dillon press for .357 Magnum.

Thanks in advance … Larry S.

Larry,
I have some experience using slower powders in the .38 Special case in a rifle (not toggle link ones).    I can tell you that 2400 is a good powder for that purpose in addition to Lil Gun and 4227.

12/2400 & 13/427 will push a 158 gr. cast bullet to 1,500 f.p.s. in a 24" barrel.
13/ Lil Gun wil go close to 1,600 f.p.s. 

What powders do you have on hand?

w44wcf
 

[cpt dan blodgett]

This all kinda depends on your intent. 
The first place to start is to create dummy rounds (no primer no powder) just like the current pistol rounds, 10 will be enough.
Test the dummy rounds in the rifle, if they load and eject fine your intent comes in to play.
If you are just shooting sass and velocity and terminal effects do not matter, shoot the same loads as in your pistol.
If the dummy rounds have feed issues try seating the bullets out farther to achieve what works for your rifle.  As stated in other posts 1.50 inches usually works, your rifle might work shorter.

Bullet shape does matter Flat point round nose or Truncated cone generally will feed much better than semi wad cutters.  You may find the rifle likes a moderate to heavy roll crimp to aid in chambering.  If your rounds are too short the rossi may just throw them out the top when the elevator pops up.

If you are looking for kinda max velocity you can use +P data for the rifle, but those rounds can never be shot in your pistol.  Seriously if you are looking to max out velocity, I would recommend loading .357 mag cases for the rifle.  That way a hot load will not chamber in your rather weak but cool revolvers. I have had good luck with HS 6, HP38, AA2, Red Dot, Nitro 100 old and new in 38.

If you troll the internet there is a guy out there that makes a special tool head with a spacer that allows for a more or less instant conversion from .38 to .357 mag for dillions.