Glad that reproductions/clones are being made other than by Colt

[Shotgun Franklin]

I own both clones and real Colt's. The clones are nice and I shoot'm a lot. The Colt's are my best handguns and I shoot'm on occasion. Are the clones really nice, yes they are. Will I wear my Colt's on horseback in the rain, nope. Will I wear a clone on horseback in the rain, yep. I have both kinds for a reason.

[Major 2]

Trying to wrap my thoughts around this whole concept of who's who in SAA design manufacturing.

Colt themselves ceased manufacturing the SAA twice, in the ensuing War years & also due to Colts own perceived decline in sales and demand.
So, in the truest definition of the word , Colt is into the reproduction of the SAA themselves.

Lets look at the Colt 1911 a moment ,are not the current and former 1911 manufacturers ( some 50 or more ) , excluding original Colt themselves not Clones ?
And isn't the current Series of Colt 1911 not a clone of the original , just as the current 3rd. generation SAA is of the original 1873 SAA ?

We as humans tend to label, and tend to set on pedestals some branding , I think of Omega & Rolex watches as a FINE Jewelry time piece.
But a Timex is a fine daily wear workingman's time piece .... It not a Clone of Omega or Rolex but does the job.

Ruger is not clone of the SAA , it is a variation on the theme, it works and is good workingman's option.

The Uberties & Pietta's are Replicas , they are in some cases closer to the original, they exist and sell in greater numbers because
they work and is very good workingman's option.

Colt owns the ( if you will ) pedestal, in branding the Single Action Army  , one is paying as much or more for the BRAND as the product, (not to mention the supply & demand , union labor & Conn. labor demands costs )

I also find the idea of buying a Colt , Rolex , or even a Ferrari for posterity strange to me , I want shoot , wear or drive it.
I don't really care if 50 or 100 years from now someone happens to acquire it as un-fired, worn or driven !
It was mine once , and I was here once !

my 2 cents and about what it's worth 

[Drydock]

A very gentle rejoinder here:  I have both, I like both, but there are differences. 

The Colts have a treated, hardened insert at the breech face to prevent peening and primer extrusion.  This is a labor intensive and time consuming military requirement that the offshore models have dropped, for price and practicality considerations.  When my Cimmerron 7th cavalry began cutting primers, I had one of these installed, at surprising expense, but I valued the military markings of this model.  99% of folks would never notice this, and is a worthwhile trade off for higher production.  But I like having the option.

The other problem the offshore models can have is spring temper, particularly the small leaf springs of the hand, bolt and trigger.  All of these have broke at one time or another on my Italians, and all have been replaced by Colt Springs.  Colts lower production and higher price allows the time and cost for springs such as these.  That Colt operates the way it does allows me the luxury of being able to by these small parts for my offshore guns.  2 of my three Uberties also now have Colt Bolts for the same reasons.

Both are produced and priced in accordance with what the market will bear.  One is not an overpriced rip off, nor is the other a "cheap" copy.  They simply are what they are, and I'm glad to have, and own, both.

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[Long Knife Rich]

Both are produced and priced in accordance with what the market will bear.  One is not an overpriced rip off, nor is the other a "cheap" copy.  They simply are what they are, and I'm glad to have, and own, both.

Well said

[Virginia Gentleman]

I own about 10 Colts so I want to come from a position of ownership and experience in this discussion. I shoot all of them from time to time too, but I do not have a 3rd gen Colt and have no desire to own one since I am lucky enough to have older Colts and USFAs. I keep hearing how 3rd gen Colt parts are harder and springs are better, but back in 2005 there was an article in one of the gun rags that showed they were the same.  True, the firing pin bushing that is milled into place causes some price increase, but not 300% worth since USFAs had and I believe Pietta has them now on their newer guns.  A 3rd gen Colt is way overpriced and it is not just my opinion, there was a CAS shooting magazine years back that had a test comparing all the reproductions (USFA was still in business and deemed to be the undisputed best) with the 3rd gen Colt.  Colt came in dead nuts last in every one of their categories except the case colors on the frame which it came in second.  There is a matter of opinion, some facts that show either better authenticity or some parts that may or may not have some durablility advantages, but other than speculation of the BRAND in value, materially Colt really does not hold any advantage.  I had to help a friend who inherited a 1980s 3rd gen replace the hand spring and the bolt spring because both had snapped after only 100 or so rounds being put through the gun.  Until recently, Colt took a short cut in press fitting a short non-removable cylinder pin bushing in place.  A very non traditional manufacturing Colt method and an not authentic to the original design with only shaving dollars off production costs in mind.  The other thing I noticed about the Colt was how overbuffed and dished out the screw holes were, how the grips sat too proud on the backstrap, not to mention the gaps in the frame to backstrap and trigger guard that were glaring....on a $1300+ gun one would expect a lot more quality out of Colt.  The newer ones, to be fair are better, but don't look or shoot any better than Cimarron or EMF GW 2 with a US finish.  In fact, the imports from these two importers seem to be better timed and smoother for much less money.  One has to be a bit wary too of a gun that has a caution not to shoot the gun because it may lower the value...LOL!  I can never get over that one.  

[Major 2]

"One has to be a bit wary too of a gun that has a caution not to shoot the gun because it may lower the value...LOL!"

That is what I was alluding to when I wrote

" I also find the idea of buying a Colt , Rolex , or even a Ferrari for posterity strange to me , I want shoot , wear or drive it.
I don't really care if 50 or 100 years from now someone happens to acquire it as un-fired, worn or driven !
It was mine once , and I was here once "

[Drydock]

All my Colts are 3rd Generation. The oldest being 1998.  I know what I have, and I know how they operate.  The 80s were a bad decade, of that there is no doubt.  I credit the turnaround in 1994, when the move to a new facility was made.

As for Gunrags.  Well, that is your term, but accurate.  Rags in general: He who advertises the most wins, wether it be cars, guns, motorcycles or toasters.  They tell me my car is unreliable, Krags load slow, you need at least 100 HP to be happy, and my toaster burns every time.  None of which is true.

Colt sells to both collectors and shooters.  Firing the gun, any gun, lowers its value.  So does driving your car off the lot.  Colt is condemned for being honest?  Burying it for a few hundred years will restore the value of course.  Mine have several thousand rounds thru them BTW. 

Some folks buy firearms as an investment.  Its not something I value myself, but i don't denigrate it.  An unfired 1st generation Colt has appreciated several hundred times the rate of inflation.  Firearms and Jewlery are considered the only true durable man made items, and both command premiums on the collector market.  Why would someone pay more for a Tiffany ring over Zales?

Shall I base my opinions of Offshore guns on a random late model Armi San Marco?

But I tire of this silliness.  

[Virginia Gentleman]

With all due respect, measurements, timing, shooting results, polishing and quality standards and comparing like products is done everyday, often with factual results and common sense conclusions.  I am happy for you that you like your 3rd gen Colts, maybe you got a few of the better ones off the line, but with more than 30 years of shooting, 'smithing and looking at SAAs, 3rd gens  IMHO are not a good product for the money given a typical example.  That is my experience and my opinion, that is formed around facts and user experience (my friends who own 3rd gens have let me shoot and work on them) there are better products to spend your money on if you want to use and shoot the gun.  In the accuracy department, 3rd gen. Colt SAAs seem to be very average, not outstanding by any measure.

[MJN77]

Colt lovers are funny. They accuse us of having a "case of sour grapes" because we own "clones", or we need to "justify" our purchase, or call our point of view "silliness" because we do not think a new Colt is worth $1400 for what you get. And they do this on the COLT SAA CLONE board. As I said I own two Colt SAAs. Both 2nd generations. In the past I have owned 1st and 3rd gens too and have shot dozens more. None of them would do anything a Uberti cannot do. Other than the firing pin bushing there is really no difference in manufacture. A Colt isn't any stronger than a Uberti. Most don't shoot any better. The feel and balance of the two is about the same. Colt and Uberti both replicate technology that was cutting edge 141 years ago. A new Colt isn't any more "historical" than a new Uberti. The biggest difference is that one offers all the features of the famed SAA for $1000 less than the other. That means a lot to some folks for one reason or another. And for the record, the 3rd gen I owned was alright in the accuracy department, but wasn't finished near as well as most of the Ubertis I own.

[Virginia Gentleman]

Colt lovers are funny. They accuse us of having a "case of sour grapes" because we own "clones", or we need to "justify" our purchase, or call our point of view "silliness" because we do not think a new Colt is worth $1400 for what you get. And they do this on the COLT SAA CLONE board. As I said I own two Colt SAAs. Both 2nd generations. In the past I have owned 1st and 3rd gens too and have shot dozens more. None of them would do anything a Uberti cannot do. Other than the firing pin bushing there is really no difference in manufacture. A Colt isn't any stronger than a Uberti. Most don't shoot any better. The feel and balance of the two is about the same. Colt and Uberti both replicate technology that was cutting edge 141 years ago. A new Colt isn't any more "historical" than a new Uberti. The biggest difference is that one offers all the features of the famed SAA for $1000 less than the other. That means a lot to some folks for one reason or another. And for the record, the 3rd gen I owned was alright in the accuracy department, but wasn't finished near as well as most of the Ubertis I own.

MJN77: I could not agree MORE with your statement in your last post.  I think for those of us who want to shoot and enjoy a reproduction of a 19th century designed SAA or other firearm, buying the Uberti and Pietta reproductions is clearly the way to go.  That is why I am glad the Italian gunmakers still produce them for us and they do a fantastic job with guns that are durable and shoot very well.  I am saddened that US Firearms could not stay in the market as I think they clearly made the highest quality SAA reproduction, but like Colt folks, I find myself not shooting them regularly like I do the others since they are becoming collectable now that they are out of production.  I do enjoy shooting the Uberti made SAAs and they more than get the job done for a whole lot less than a Colt.  Again, your choice and mileage may vary.  

[MJN77]

To be clear, I do not have anything against Colts. But to say that the $1400 price is justified is BS. Why? Because they are American made? No. Ruger revolvers are American made too. Rugers are "safer" and stronger than any Colt and can be had in the $500-$600 range. Is it Colts fit and finish? No. Same as with Ubertis, I have seen Colts that were beautiful, but have also seen some that had tool marks. That had poorly fitted grips. That had off center front sights. Are they more "historical"? No. A 2014 manufactured Colt has the same "history" that a 2014 manufactured Uberti has. Will a Colt outperform a Uberti/Pietta? No. Like the fit and finish, accuracy can be hit or miss . I think it all comes down to brand name. Some folks will shell out big $$$ for their favorite brand name product because they think it's the best even if they can't quite tell you why it's better. Other people will buy the "off brand" because while it costs less, you still get everything the big brand name has to offer. For the cost of my twelve Uberti revolvers I could buy three, maybe four new Colts. I don't see how that would be a better deal. Everyone on this forum have a lot of the same likes and dislikes. We all have different feelings and opinions too. If you buy Colts because you wanted a Colt, good for you. Nothing wrong with that at all. But when you act superior towards people that don't drool over the almighty Colt like you do, you just end up looking like a pompous fool.

But I tire of this silliness.

[jimbobborg]

This sounds like a Harley versus everyone else argument that I hear on Motorcycle forums.

[Virginia Gentleman]

Basically that is a true analogy, fanatical brand loyalty inspite of facts to the contrary and you will get demonized or attacked if you point out such facts that their "Colt Unicorn Dust" has no effect on.  Sorry this thread got hijacked a bit, but the reality is the newer gun makers making all of the reproductions are doing a great job and they make models and variants that would not be made otherwise.

[MJN77]

Here's a good example. I was at Cabelas today. Looking around their gun room I saw two Bisley revolvers in one of the display cases. One was a by God actual genuine Colt and the other was an old Navy Arms/Uberti. I asked to look at both. They felt the same. They looked very much alike. The action worked the same on both. They were near identical. I had the gun room employee put the "pre-owned" $3000 Colt back in the case and I came home with the "pre-owned" $325 Uberti. I just don't see paying an extra $2675 for a little horsey and the word "COLT". Most American made modern high quality double action revolvers cost under $1000. Most American made top of the line semi auto pistols cost under $1000. Why exactly is an American made single action revolver worth $1400? I would genuinely like an actual answer to that question. If you have that kind of money to spend on one and it's what you want, have at it. I just don't see it. That's all I have to say because.......

I tire of this silliness.

I love this pompous little line.

[Shotgun Franklin]

Yeah, and just because her name is Sandra Bullock doesn't mean I'd like to go out with her. I like my Italian Guns but i scrimped and saved to buy my Colt's if you didn't that 's your deal.

[MJN77]

Congratulations. 

[Virginia Gentleman]

I own older non third generation Colts, they have real COLLECTOR VALUE, the newer stuff is overpriced voodoo brand marketing. The quality just isn't there to justify the outrageous price that is way out of line to the competition.

[sfc rick]

My simple observation is, that without the Italians efforts during the 60's producing the SAA's for the Movie(Spaghetti westerns) industry I wouldn't be enjoying my collection of six guns. So I tip my hat to them for doing what Colt failed to do. I'm fairly confident that Uberti has more enthusiasm for the spirit of the West than Colt.

Awesome....just awesome we can strap on a six gun and shoot!

[Virginia Gentleman]

My simple observation is, that without the Italians efforts during the 60's producing the SAA's for the Movie(Spaghetti westerns) industry I wouldn't be enjoying my collection of six guns. So I tip my hat to them for doing what Colt failed to do. I'm fairly confident that Uberti has more enthusiasm for the spirit of the West than Colt.

Awesome....just awesome we can strap on a six gun and shoot!
[/quote

Very well said sir!

[Fox Creek Kid]

To be clear, I do not have anything against Colts. But to say that the $1400 price is justified is BS. Why? Because they are American made? No. Ruger revolvers are American made too. Rugers are "safer" and stronger than any Colt and can be had in the $500-$600 range. Is it Colts fit and finish?...

The vast majority of Ruger's Prescott, AZ factory workers are temporary workers who make $10.00 hr. & no bennies.   That's why Ruger moved there:  cheap labor. Now if you had a son or daughter in the workforce would you be more proud of them if they worked at Colt for a good salary & bennies or at Ruger for peanuts with a bunch of illegal aliens? Think about it. There is a huge social price to be paid for a Walmart World.