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  • 2014 Grand Muster: June 27, 2014 - June 29, 2014

Author Topic: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster  (Read 95270 times)

Offline Drydock

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #175 on: June 11, 2014, 08:16:31 pm »
I remember the effects of shooting over water, the Navy does that a lot.  'Course, with the 16/50 we were more concerned with the Coriolis effect . . .   ;D
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline pony express

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #176 on: June 11, 2014, 10:34:09 pm »
Well, if you guys are going to bring Swedish Mausers, I'll have to bring mine too, next year. Nothing against my Lebel, but I'd need to at least keep up in the equipment race!

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #177 on: June 12, 2014, 01:20:47 am »
I, on the other hand, am regressing! 

In keeping with my circa-1870 Fenian-period Canadian Militia impression, I will be shooting a .577 Snider-Enfield - literally a muzzle-loading Enfield Rifle Musket converted to single-shot breech-loader!



 :o   Just say "No!" to the Arms Race!    ;D
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Online Pitspitr

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #178 on: June 12, 2014, 04:39:04 am »
Isn't that kind of the British version of the American trapdoor, only with a larger cartridge? How long did the empire stay with it?
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Offline pony express

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #179 on: June 12, 2014, 06:05:48 am »
Not exactly like a trapdoor, since the breechblock hinges to the side, instead of from the front. I believe Canada kept the Snyder longest, they never adopted the Martini, went straight to repeaters after the Snyder.

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #180 on: June 12, 2014, 06:30:06 am »
Not exactly like a trapdoor, since the breechblock hinges to the side, instead of from the front.

No, I understood that. What I meant was that it was originally a design to take advantage of leftover parts and complete muzzleloading rifles while at the same time allowing the change over to breech loaders.
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Offline Niederlander

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #181 on: June 12, 2014, 07:27:26 am »
You're right, Jerry, it was an attempt (quite a successful one, I might add) to convert rifles already on hand, instead of going to the expense of adopting a totally new rifle.  Probably a good idea, also, in that firearms technology was advancing so rapidly that often a new design was virtually obsolete by the time it was produced and in the field.  Cost was always the over riding factor, though.  Even as late as the 1930's, the Marine Corps stayed with the 1903 instead of the M1 primarily because the Navy (who controlled the purse strings) spent all their money on battle ships and there was nothing left for new rifles.  In their defense though, in light of how well the 1903 has performed, switching to the M1 would probably have appeared largely to be change for the sake of change.
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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #182 on: June 12, 2014, 09:01:20 am »
Yes, the Snider-Enfield conversion was adopted in 1866 as a practical and economical means of converting the existing stocks of tens of thousands of muzzle-loading .577 Enfield rifles to breech-loaders.  It was intended merely as a stop-gap expedient pending adoption of a "purpose-built" breech-loader . i.e. the Martini-Henry rifle which went into production about 1871 (although the final version of the Mark I M-H wasn't approved until 1874).  Because of the Fenian threat, Canada was the first part of the Empire to have its military forces fully re-armed with the Snider - i.e. by the end of 1867 - but then we stuck with it as our primary-issue military rifle far longer than any other part of the Empire - we finally began replacing it with the Magazine Lee-Enfield rifle in 1896/97!  In that respect the Snider-Enfield is unquestionably the quintessential Canadian military breech-loading rifle of the 19th century .... the reason I am "regressing" to it from my usual Martini-Henry ....





Jacob Snider, the inventor of the conversion system (which won out over quite a few other designs submitted at the request of the War Department,) was an American by the way;  he ended up dying in poverty in Britain in mid-1866 while struggling to get monetary compensation from the British government.  They finally paid what most consider to be a wholly inadequate sum to his widow ....

http://www.enfield-snider.com/Snider.htm
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Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
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Online Delmonico

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #183 on: June 12, 2014, 09:13:08 am »
Well you won't be far from a center for those dang Fenians when you are at Camp Pitspiter. ::)

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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #184 on: June 12, 2014, 10:54:47 am »
Well, they'll have to watch out for the Canadian Militia just like they had to back in the day ....





 ;) .... only joshin' of course!

Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
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Offline Dalton Masterson

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #185 on: June 12, 2014, 12:39:00 pm »
I see it in the future history books now... The Canadian Incursion of 2014....
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Offline Drydock

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #186 on: June 12, 2014, 04:49:20 pm »
Yeah, well, the future history ain't what it used to be . . .
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Pay Dirt Norvelle

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #187 on: June 12, 2014, 04:57:36 pm »
I was in my local gun shop and they had a Snider conversion for sale.  I couldn't buy it as I had just bought a Krag and the money supply was a bit on the thin side.    ::)
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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #188 on: June 12, 2014, 05:17:45 pm »
I've got a Snider conversion, one of those French muskets converted in Belgium and chambered for 12 gauge, been in the family a long time and no, I am scared to shoot it.  Although the last time it was shot was in 1945 and it killed a pheasant, with a smokeless shell, buckshot surplus reloaded with lead shot.   :o
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Offline pony express

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #189 on: June 12, 2014, 05:32:35 pm »
Del, was that a musket converted by the Belgians, or a French converted musket converted to a shotgun later?

http://d1q1tydbf3ejpe.cloudfront.net/objet/2010/05/06/1750410/1750410-21750410-c1n.jpg

These seem to be somewhat common converted to shotguns, but in original condition pretty pricey. Similar system to a Snyder. They were used as a secondary weapon in the Franco Prussian war, odd that the secondary weapon used a metallic cartridge, but the primary rifle, the Chasspot, was a needle gun using linen cartridges.

Online Delmonico

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #190 on: June 12, 2014, 09:49:13 pm »
I'm not 100% sure, but it is a 12 gauge, remind me at the muster and we'll pick each others brains over it, seems almost no two I've ever seen are alike, some are stamped Zulu, a couple show in Butcher photos.
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Offline pony express

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #191 on: June 13, 2014, 06:25:21 am »
I don't have much information to pick, actually. I never saw an original, or a shotgun conversion in person. Only original I have seen for sale was on Gunbroker for about $3200. :o I guess they did a good job of finding and converting most of them. Maybe they preferred them over SnyderEnfields because the caliber was already close to 12ga size, I think the original musket was about .72 cal, and they didn't sleeve it down for the conversion.

Offline Dusty Tagalon

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #192 on: June 13, 2014, 08:47:58 pm »
For the Zook Shooters, I will bring 2 pistols to the match for sale.
1) Savage 1907/17; 10 shot 32 acp,it is a 1907, with the slide & hammer of the 1917. The difference between the 1907/17 vs the 1917, the grip frame is narrower, than the 1917, & there are no screws in it, the 1917 has a larger grip frame, & has a  the only screw on the gun. asking $250.00.
2) A Polish pps 43, 7.62; Never been fired, in its current configuration. I ordered 2 about the same time, figuring 1 wouldn't be able to come through, anyway, ended up with 2, my loss, your gain, asking $300.00.

Brian
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 07:43:29 am by Dusty Tagalon »

Offline Drydock

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #193 on: June 13, 2014, 09:10:10 pm »
And here I thought I was gonna be the only one with a PPS-43!
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #194 on: June 13, 2014, 09:12:59 pm »
If I have room I will put my Zulu/Snider/Suicide Gun in when I leave. 
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Offline pony express

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #195 on: June 13, 2014, 10:39:36 pm »
1) Savage 1907/17; it is a 1907, with the slide & hammer of the 1917. The difference between the 1907/17 vs the 1917, the grip frame is narrower, than the 1917, & there are no screws in it, the 1917 has a larger grip frame, & has a  the only screw on the gun. asking $250.00.

Interesting... I believe Savage autoloaders were among the myriad of small automatics the French purchased during WW1, in addition to many styles of Spanish automatics. Expansion Era with a Berthier, maybe....

Speaking of the Zoot shooters, I was in a local Gun Shop today, they had a new Thompson, for a mere $1,200something, as well as a 1907 Winchester .351, and a Remington 81 in .300 Savage. Too bad the '81 couldn't be used in main matches, even at Pitspitr's range, I doubt it could be loaded down enough and still function.

Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #196 on: June 14, 2014, 09:26:34 pm »
For the Zook Shooters, I will bring 2 pistols to the match for sale.
1) Savage 1907/17; it is a 1907, with the slide & hammer of the 1917. The difference between the 1907/17 vs the 1917, the grip frame is narrower, than the 1917, & there are no screws in it, the 1917 has a larger grip frame, & has a  the only screw on the gun. asking $250.00.
2) A Polish pps 43; Never been fired, in its current configuration. I ordered 2 about the same time, figuring 1 wouldn't be able to come through, anyway, ended up with 2, my loss, your gain, asking $300.00.

Brian


 Which caliber pps 43? 7.62 Tokarev or 9mm Makarov?
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Offline Dusty Tagalon

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #197 on: June 15, 2014, 07:41:42 am »
The PPS 43 is 7.62.

Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #198 on: June 15, 2014, 08:22:00 am »
The PPS 43 is 7.62.

I might be interested. We can take a look at the muster

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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: 2014 10th Anniversary edition International Grand Muster
« Reply #199 on: June 15, 2014, 08:29:25 am »
I have a weapon question in relation to my 15 year old son. For the Expansion Era match he would like to shoot a revolver rather than a 1911 (Which always malfunctions in his hands!) He obviously has a SAA but that would be way out of place for a US soldier at that time. I do have Colt Police Special in .38 made in 1911. Could he carry that as a private purchase firearm? My only other choice is a Colt Official Police in 32-20 which has the same basic form as a Colt New Army and we could squint. If none of these are acceptable he will use my 1911.
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