Author Topic: Delayed Successful Acquisition!  (Read 23222 times)

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« on: April 01, 2013, 01:22:43 am »
Gentlemen of the Mess:

Shortly before Christmas, on a Canadian antique firearms dealer's website., I came across a recently-listed - and simply gorgeous - Canadian-issue Snider-Enfield rifle .... and immediately knew that I absolutely must own it - a 3-band "Long Rifle" (as issued to regular infantry) with "long butt" (i.e. 1" longer than standard, for issue to tall men.)  I already had a pretty nice 3-band Snider, but felt I could not live without this particular rifle because, in addition to being in extremely good condition in all respects, it was marked as having been issued to the 43rd (Carleton) Battalion of Infantry, Active Militia of Canada, which made it extremely significant to me personally. 

As many of you know, my surname is Rombough, and in fact anyone of that surname in Canada is descended from a single family of Loyalists, in which there were four sons, each son having a line descended from him.  Here is the reason for the significance of this particular rifle for me:



The full inscription on the rim of this medal (which I am honoured to own) reads: "Pte. D. Rombough, 43rd. Bn."  and it is one of three such "Canada General Service 1866-1870" medals issued to Canadian militiamen with the surname Rombough ..... all three of whom served together in the 43rd Battalion.  So, not only were all three of them enrolled in the 43rd when this rifle would have been on issue to the unit, but the chances are actually fairly good that it might have been issued to one of them!  I say that because Rombough men have always been quite tall, so a "long butt" rifle is what they would have been issued.  For example, all four of the Rombough men (the father and his three eldest sons) who served in the Loyalist "King's Royal Regiment of New York" ninety years earlier during the American Revolution were exceptionally tall for the era, their heights being recorded on the regimental roll as 5 9 1/4" for the father, 6'1/4" for two of the sons, and 5'10" for the youngest son in the unit, who was my own direct ancestor, John Rombough ..... but who was only 19 years of age at the time!

Having hopefully now given some idea of the importance of this rifle to me, personally, you can imagine my severe disappointment, when I finally managed to get into contact with the dealer a few days later, only to learn that this piece had been sold to a collector here in Alberta the previous week!

Well, gentlemen, I refused to give up!  I pestered the dealer to put me in touch with the chap who had purchased the rifle and, although he would not give out his contact information (understandably,) I finally convinced him to e-mail the purchaser and pass along my interest and the reason for it.  Thankfully, the gentleman did contact me and although advising that he is careful to get the best quality firearms he can locate for his collection ..... and then seldom if ever disposes of one ..... he was willing to at least consider relinquishing this rifle to me in the circumstances.  We arranged to meet at the Calgary Gun Show (largest in Canada, held the Friday and Saturday of the Easter weekend each year) to "talk".

I am overjoyed to report that the "talk" was successful, and I am now the owner of this coveted piece!







Queen Victoria's Royal Cypher and Enfield mark and date on lock plate -


Dominion of Canada Property mark and Enfield cartouche on butt -


Battalion and 'stand of arms' numbers on buttplate tang -


I have been planning to get a new uniform ..... and was contemplating another for the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada - which is the unit represented my existing 1885 North West Rebellion uniform - although it was going to be an earlier version appropriate to the 1866 through early 1870s timeframe of the Fenian Raids.  Needless to say, my plans have changed and I will now be acquiring the standard Canada Militia regular infantry uniform of that period, numbered to the 43rd Battalion .... of course!



I plan to get the standard Pattern 1863 tunic (as shown on the left above) rather than the simpler "field frock" which a few units had for active campaigning.  I posted this double image to show the two types of headwear I'll eventually need - the Pattern 1861 Shako and the "kilmarnock cap".  Both of these chaps are Canadian militia infantrymen with muzzle-loading Pattern 1853 Enfield rifle muskets .... however, the same uniforms and kit continued in use following the re-arming of the Militia with the Snider-Enfield breech-loading conversion rifle in 1867 - except that the the cap pouch shown worn on the cartridge box cross-strap was no longer needed and was discarded.  The inset shows the Pattern 1860 "ball bag" worn on the waistbelt at front right, into which the loose cartridges were dumped when one of the ten-round paper packets of cartridges carried in the cartridge box was opened.

Here are period photographs of Canadian Militia infantrymen in this kit, after the Snider-Enfield had become standard issue -



The chap on the left is a Sergeant, so he was issued with the 2-band "Short Rifle" and yataghan sword bayonet of the same patterns as issued to all personnel in Rifles units.  The two Privates on the right have the 3-band "Long Rifle" and socket bayonet otherwise standard for regular infantry.
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Offline Pitspitr

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2013, 04:52:03 am »
That is soooo Cooool! Congratulations!

Are you going to use it at the musters this year so we can all drool on it?
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Offline Niederlander

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 06:43:23 am »
That is WAY cool!
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Offline River City John

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2013, 08:06:20 am »
Congratulations!

Sometimes the gods smile down and it was meant to be. Excellent, strong markings in the wood of the stock, too.

So, from butt to trigger is it a 15" pull or thereabouts?
And RJ, that uniform seems a bit tame by your standards, doesn't It?

RCJ
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 08:09:31 am by River City John »
"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 11:45:53 am »
Yes, I'll definitely have it along ..... although it is so nice I am debating whether I should subject it to the wear and tear of Muster courses of fire .....  I do have my the other 3-band rifle - not quite as nice, but still fully functional and with an excellent bore, I can use for "active campaign" while reserving this one for "Parade" and "show-and-tell". 
On the other hand .....   ::)  ..... this one, with its "long butt", does fit me better!

So, from butt to trigger is it a 15" pull or thereabouts?
And RJ, that uniform seems a bit tame by your standards, doesn't It?

Actually, John, the pull is only 14" ..... standard butt length of the P'1853 Enfield rifle musket (from which these were converted) was only 13" ....

As for the uniform and kit .... the red coat and whitened accoutrements will be a bit more more "noticeable" than the rifle green and black (or khaki) I've been mostly wearing in the field ....
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 03:01:34 pm »
Congratulations Grant;  I'm sure you can find a use for your Canadian issue London Navy revolver as well.

My own 3-band Snider is a Mk II made by BSA in 1871.  Butt length is 13". No Canadian marking, just broad arrow over WD.

 I have a 1859 bayonet that I bought at Bisley on my last trip to Jolly Olde....  I don't have a scabbard for it.  Any suggestions? Do the various sutlers sell replica scabbards separately?  (I have the same problem with a newly purchased 1888 pattern bayonet off ebay. No scabbard.)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 03:25:32 pm by Sir Charles deMouton-Black »
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Online Silver Creek Slim

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 06:48:15 pm »
That is great.

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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 09:23:11 pm »
Carl:

Yes, some Sutlers do sell reproduction scabbards for the Enfield socket bayonet separately -

Blockade Runner - US$19.95 - http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg7.htm (Item #650 .... scroll well down on the page)

Fall Creek - US$29.95 - http://www.fcsutler.com/fcbayonets.asp (only about 1/5 of the way down the page)

What I was never able to find was a reproduction scabbard for the P'1856 yataghan sword bayonet being sold separately by anyone ..... and ended up buying a complete reproduction bayonet (not cheap, at around US$140 or so) just to get the scabbard.  Although I thought that the repro bayonet itself would be of little or no use, I ended up modifying it - including bushing the barrel ring - so it would fit on a Martini-Henry rifle .... much like they did back in the 19th Century.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 09:24:55 pm by RattlesnakeJack »
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 10:43:17 pm »
Thanks Grant;  Did you see the London Colt Canadian cavalry revolver on CGN?   Only $5500. 
NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”

Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2013, 06:35:16 pm »
Even had it been a POS with the probability it may have been carried by an ancestor it would have been a great aquisition.   Given how great the condition is it truly is an outstanding find.  Kudos to the collector who understood and appreciated the connection.
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Offline wyldwylliam

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2013, 07:34:54 pm »
Heartiest congratulations, Grant!

Offline Drydock

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2013, 07:52:34 pm »
Damn Grant, that is just beautiful!  Heck, all my ancestors were sailors, ennyone know where I can find a Driggs-Schroeder 6 pounder off the USS Iowa?  (BB-4, the Spanish American War one!)    ;D
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2020, 10:39:58 pm »
Stumbled upon this post and realized that I had never updated it with even one image of myself in uniform with this lovely rifle ... so thought I'd better correct that oversight, if only for posterity.

I undoubtedly did post this (and other images) elsewhere, following the 2014 Muster, but I really should post at least one such image here ... one of a couple of very nice shots taken by Dalton Masterson at that Muster.  (The uniform is the Canadian Militia Pattern 1863 infantry tunic and trousers, and I am kitted out as would be any Militia Infantryman during the 1866-1870 Fenian Raids into Canada (although, as mentioned above, in 1866 and for much of 1867, the rifle would have been the Pattern 1853 Enfield muzzle-loading rifle, until re-arming with the Snider breech-loading conversion of that rifle ...)

Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Offline River City John

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2020, 10:52:19 pm »
Excellent!
"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
"He who will not look backward with reverence, will not look forward with hope." - Edmund Burke
". . .freedom is not everything or the only thing, perhaps we will put that discovery behind us and comprehend, before it's too late, that without freedom all else is nothing."- G. Warren Nutter
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Offline Sagebrush Burns

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2020, 11:23:35 pm »
Gotta love it when a plan comes together...  Congratulations on an excellent find!

Offline Major 2

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Re: Delayed Successful Acquisition!
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2020, 05:29:14 am »
Meant to be , so cool when Planets align
when planets align...do the deal !

 

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