Hand Stitching Leather

[T.C. Grant]

Marshall Will can you add this to the Faq/how to thread for later reference?

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Good idea, TC. I merged this thread with our existing one to create this new thread called, "Hand Stitching Leather". Now all the stitching information will be all in one place. The existing thread was already in out FAQ thread.

[T.C. Grant]

Thanks Will!

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[ChuckBurrows]

the pitch blend gives the thread and leather all the protection it needs, I usually use natural linen thread.

TW - with respect IMO no you're not - in fact you may be causing problems with your thread down the road.....
Two major reasons for waxing thread (whether with plain bees wax or hand/hardwax - beeswax mixed with pitch) is two fold:
1) To lock the thread fibers together which strengthens them. In the old days we used to make up our own threads from single cord (The Art of Handsewing Leather explains how and I still do sometimes) into what ever "cord" we needed i.e 3 cord, 5 cord, etc. - in the "raw" state it was pretty easy to break, but even the single ply once waxed gained considerable strength once the fibers were locked together.
2) To prevent absorbtion of liquids - water and oil mainly. By dipping in MT Pitchblend (BTW one of my favorite top coats) you are in fact adding oil to your thread. While the oil doesn't actually rot the thread in my experience, it can and will weaken it over time.

FWIW - my statement here and most others I make are based on not only building leather for 40+ years, but repairing it as well and observing firsthand what does and does not cause damage. IMO repairing leather is one of the best ways to learn.... Again I'm no expert just an experienced student of the craft trying to help folks from making the same mistakes I made or observed.....

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

TW - with respect IMO no you're not - in fact you may be causing problems with your thread down the road.....
Two major reasons for waxing thread (whether with plain bees wax or hand/hardwax - beeswax mixed with pitch) is two fold:
1) To lock the thread fibers together which strengthens them. In the old days we used to make up our own threads from single cord (The Art of Handsewing Leather explains how and I still do sometimes) into what ever "cord" we needed i.e 3 cord, 5 cord, etc. - in the "raw" state it was pretty easy to break, but even the single ply once waxed gained considerable strength once the fibers were locked together.
2) To prevent absorbtion of liquids - water and oil mainly. By dipping in MT Pitchblend (BTW one of my favorite top coats) you are in fact adding oil to your thread. While the oil doesn't actually rot the thread in my experience, it can and will weaken it over time.

FWIW - my statement here and most others I make are based on not only building leather for 40+ years, but repairing it as well and observing firsthand what does and does not cause damage. IMO repairing leather is one of the best ways to learn.... Again I'm no expert just an experienced student of the craft trying to help folks from making the same mistakes I made or observed.....
[/quote

  Hello Chuck

      Will that's what I like about this leather craft, you learn something new all the time, so if I understand this right, it's safe to use the Montana Pine Pitch Blend as an over coat only, and just stay with using the wax linen thread by its self, and you can dip your needle in bees wax only as an aid for pushing the needle through, is this right ? I've never used anything but waxed linen thread, and have felt comfortable using it because the thread was protected by the bees was, I thought in my mind that the bees waxed linen thread had all the protection it needed, by dipping my needle in the MPB, it would just add a little more protection,  I would understand why unwaxed thread would need to be handled differently, boy there is so much to learn, I think that's just another thing that twiks my interest in this craft, it never gets boring. Thanks for this information Chuck, I'm going to remove my resent post on the Montana Pitch Blend, I don't like giving out the wrong information. I appreciate you stepping in here on this subject, this is what I love about this forum, every one is here to help.

                                    tEN wOLVES 

[ChuckBurrows]

Hello Chuck

      Will that's what I like about this leather craft, you learn something new all the time, so if I understand this right, it's safe to use the Montana Pine Pitch Blend as an over coat only, and just stay with using the wax linen thread by its self, and you can dip your needle in bees wax only as an aid for pushing the needle through, is this right ? I've never used anything but waxed linen thread, and have felt comfortable using it because the thread was protected by the bees was, I thought in my mind that the bees waxed linen thread had all the protection it needed, by dipping my needle in the MPB, it would just add a little more protection,  I would understand why unwaxed thread would need to be handled differently, boy there is so much to learn, I think that's just another thing that twiks my interest in this craft, it never gets boring. Thanks for this information Chuck, I'm going to remove my resent post on the Montana Pitch Blend, I don't like giving out the wrong information.   I appreciate you stepping in here on this subject, this is what I love about this forum, every one is here to help.

TW - I sort of jumped the gun too - since you're using pre-waxed linen thread then there should be no problem with dipping your needle in MTB. It sounded like (and I shouldn't have assumed) that you were using unwaxed thread and were using the MTB in place of waxing your thread. The mix noted above is for using with unwaxed linen so when you made you're comment I didn't think about pre-waxed.
That's what I get for working real late and then offering "advice"!
FWIW - I keep a ball of plain beeswax at hand for lubing my awl and needle

of course now that you removed your post everybody is going to be going HUH?      that's OK it will keep them on their toes eh!
 

[JD Alan]

If there is a more helpful, yet always respectful forum on any subject on any website, I've yet to see it or hear about it. You guys are the best, period. I love the "No Ego" part of this forum. And while I'm at it, if anyone had a good reason for an Ego, it would be Chuck, or WC, or Will, the list goes on.

People from other forums of all sorts could take lessons here. JD

[Marshal Will Wingam]

The thread I ordered came yesterday. As a reminder, I ordered the Hungarian 100% linen 5 cord left twist natural. It looks to be good quality thread although I haven't tried sewing anything with it yet. It has the feel of the thread I used when I first started. For those who have been using waxed thread, this is not and will need to be waxed. I have a holster in progress and will get to try it then.

[Wiley Desperado]

Marshal I have always used waxed thread so my question is how do you wax thread? My guess would be to run it across bees wax or is it more complicated than that?

[ChuckBurrows]

Marshal I have always used waxed thread so my question is how do you wax thread? My guess would be to run it across bees wax or is it more complicated than that?

Not the Marshall - but yep! although I prefer the prep of bbeswax and pitch noted above........

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

TW - I sort of jumped the gun too - since you're using pre-waxed linen thread then there should be no problem with dipping your needle in MTB. It sounded like (and I shouldn't have assumed) that you were using unwaxed thread and were using the MTB in place of waxing your thread. The mix noted above is for using with unwaxed linen so when you made you're comment I didn't think about pre-waxed.
That's what I get for working real late and then offering "advice"!
FWIW - I keep a ball of plain beeswax at hand for lubing my awl and needle

of course now that you removed your post everybody is going to be going HUH?      that's OK it will keep them on their toes eh!
 

   Howdy Chuck 

      Thanks for your reply, I feel much better knowing I didn't screw up.


                       tEN wOLVES 

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks for the reply, there, Chuck. I learned to wax with pure beeswax. Never had any better mixtures but I see I'll have to try it now. The way I learned was to pull the thread across the wax at least 4 or 5 times until the appropriate amount of wax is on the thread. This is done in the direction it will be sewn. In other words, pulling toward the middle from both ends. That prevents the thread from fuzzing when you sew and helps it to pull through the leather easier. Maybe this new stuff won't matter which way it gets done but that's what I do anyway.

[Wiley Desperado]

Ok, now I know how to wax thread thanks all for the help.  One more question if you don't mind, why is linen thread better than...lets say nylon ?

[HorsePen Henry]

Howdy Wylie,
I suspect that Menea and Frazier didn't use nylon thread. That's why I don't care to use it.
Another suspicion of mine is that nylon is a synthetic and flax is as natural as leather. Nylon may cut through the leather in time whereas flax more than likely will not.
Cheers,
Horse Pen

[Wiley Desperado]

Thanks HorsePen Henry I have been wordering about this.  .  I thought nylon would wear better but I didn't consider the historical aspects or that nylon might wear through the leather. I appreciate your comments pard.   

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I find that the nylon thread won't pull tight and stay there as easily as natural material.

[Skeeter Lewis]

Howdy, Marshal Will

As a newbie, I gotta say that just this one thread has answered a bunch of questions I had.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Welcome, Skeeter. Glad to hear it's helpful. That's the whole idea to The Leather Shop and it's nice to know we're successful. Welcome to the forum. Be sure to look at all the threads linked in our FAQ thread: FAQ/HOW-TO/SUPPLIERS/IDEAS. Looking forward to your posts.

[RollingThunder]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and also say that it's because the linen thread has more of a "tooth" to its weave than nylon, similar to how some art papers have a rougher feel (called a "tooth"). It has more of a capability of securely holding onto the surface of the leather.

[Skeeter Lewis]

Hi all. I've made myself a stitching pony using Chuck's website advice. It's great - but stitching the pipe section of the holster is tough. There doesn't seem to be a good angle at which to clamp the holster. Maybe it'll come with experience.