Author Topic: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?  (Read 16839 times)

Offline nactorman

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 111
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« on: September 10, 2012, 08:28:38 PM »
Hi All,
  I was just wondering if any SSS folks might be interested in owning a reproduction bayonet for their Spencer rifle? I'm considering having some manufactured and just wondered if there was enough interest out there to justify the time/cost. They would be reproduced from an original piece and come with an appropriate scabbard. Anticipated cost for bayonet + scabbard would be about $55-$65 ea. Any thoughts?
  Charles Misulia
  "nactorman"

Offline RattlesnakeJack

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1701
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 09:39:04 PM »
I'd definitely want one!
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Two Flints

  • Spencer Shooting Society Founder & Moderator
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2666
  • Moderating SSS IS a "Labor of Love"!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 04:00:47 AM »
Would the Spencer bayonets have a new look or would they have an 1860's appearance, you know, made to look old and worn? . . .  my rifle sure does ::) ::)  And no US markings ;D

I might be interested, too.

Two Flints

Una mano lava l'altra
Moderating SSS is a "labor of love"
Viet Vet  '68-69
3/12 - 4th Inf Div
Spencer Shooting Society Moderator
Spencer Shooting Society (SSS) #4;
BOSS #62
NRA; GOAL; SAM; NMLRA
Fur Trade Era - Mountain Man
Traditional Archery

Offline RattlesnakeJack

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1701
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 01:41:50 PM »
Would the Spencer bayonets have a new look or would they have an 1860's appearance, you know, made to look old and worn? . . .  my rifle sure does ::) ::)  And no US markings ;D

If you think about it, an "1860's appearance" (.... i.e. what the item would have looked like in the 1860's ....) would actually be "new" .... or at very least "nearly new".  Folks who have modern reproduction rifles, and do period reenacting, want their firearms and other kit to look new, or at least recently issued (or certainly should want that, unless they want to pass off their repros as originals!)  After all, when such kit was in use in the 1860's, it definitely wasn't a century and a half old!

On the other hand, a "new" bayonet can be artfully "aged" to better match an original firearm, after you get it.

As a Canadian re-enactor, I am fully in agreement with avoidance of "US" markings, however. 
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline PvtGreg

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 327
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 02:30:34 PM »
I'm in.

Pvt Greg

Advertisers

  • Guest
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #5 on: Today at 04:28:02 PM »

Offline Two Flints

  • Spencer Shooting Society Founder & Moderator
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2666
  • Moderating SSS IS a "Labor of Love"!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 03:40:55 PM »
Hi,

I pulled this information from Robert M. Reilly's, American Socket Bayonets and Scabbards and thought it might be of interest to anyone reading this thread.







Two Flints


Una mano lava l'altra
Moderating SSS is a "labor of love"
Viet Vet  '68-69
3/12 - 4th Inf Div
Spencer Shooting Society Moderator
Spencer Shooting Society (SSS) #4;
BOSS #62
NRA; GOAL; SAM; NMLRA
Fur Trade Era - Mountain Man
Traditional Archery

Offline Sean Thornton

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 286
  • Bentonville, NC 2010
    • The Henry Repeating Rifle
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 03:53:31 PM »
Charles count me in as long as it is a new look to go with my new looking reproduction Spencer and that it will fit the reproduction.  I am not sure if the difference between an original rifle and a repro is much.
"Victory thru rapid fire"
National Henry Rifle Company"
SASS 5042 LTGR

Offline Herbert

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 966
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2012, 03:54:25 PM »
You will all so have to realise that a original Spencer bayonet most likly will not fit the AS Spencer as the front sight is in a diffrent position and there are at least two diffrent barrel diameters on the AS rifle that I know off

Offline RattlesnakeJack

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1701
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2012, 05:55:26 PM »
....I pulled this information from Robert M. Reilly's, American Socket Bayonets and Scabbards and thought it might be of interest to anyone reading this thread.

Thanks, Two Flints!  Saved .....
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Two Flints

  • Spencer Shooting Society Founder & Moderator
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2666
  • Moderating SSS IS a "Labor of Love"!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2012, 06:49:05 PM »
From a recent article by Graham Priest, The U.S. Rifle-Musket Model 1855 Bayonet in the Civil War, which appeared in the June, 2011 issue of MAN AT ARMS.







Two Flints

Una mano lava l'altra
Moderating SSS is a "labor of love"
Viet Vet  '68-69
3/12 - 4th Inf Div
Spencer Shooting Society Moderator
Spencer Shooting Society (SSS) #4;
BOSS #62
NRA; GOAL; SAM; NMLRA
Fur Trade Era - Mountain Man
Traditional Archery

Advertisers

  • Guest
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #10 on: Today at 04:28:02 PM »

Offline jim

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2012, 07:22:05 PM »
I would also be interested in one,,jim

Offline nactorman

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 111
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 10:56:32 PM »
Wow, thanks everyone for the response and the helpful info. I am going to move ahead with the project. I'll keep everyone updated as things progress.
  Charles Misulia
  "Nactorman"

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4055
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2012, 09:07:09 AM »
For those interested in the 709 fitted with the 1855 sabre bayonet, you can use this:

http://www.regtqm.com/product-p/bay-012.htm

This is the 1855 common rifle bayonet, seen most often on the 1841 Mississippi rifle, thus it has been called the Mississippi bayonet.  The adaptor ring provided was for the Mississippi rifle, and may very well have been used on the Spencer until the socket type bayonet could be engineered, thus the relativly small number issued at the beginning of the run.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Jobe Holiday

  • Doc's half-wit, half-brother
  • Very Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2012, 09:32:47 AM »
I will respectfully disagree about using a M-1855 Rifle saber bayonet on a Spencer Rifle. I just slipped an original M-1855 Rifle saber  bayonet over the muzzle of an original Spencer Rifle to check it out, and it was very, very, loose. So I measured the combination. The muzzle diameter of a Spencer Rifle is 0.815" v.s. the muzzle ring diameter of a M-1855 Rifle saber bayonet, which is 0.880". That is over 1/16th of an inch slop. You wouldn't want to even try re-enacting with a combination like that.

J.
Life Member: NRA Benefactor, NMLRA, SCA, OMSA, EAF&GC

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4055
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2012, 12:28:27 PM »
That is a lot of clearance, I thought it would be tighter than that.  However, if one wanted to do it, it would not be a hard modification, and the 1855 is the correct bayonet for those early Spencers.  Just another alternative to consider!   ;D
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Jobe Holiday

  • Doc's half-wit, half-brother
  • Very Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2012, 02:02:47 PM »
OK, this is fun!

It is physically impossible to mount a M-1855 Rifle saber bayonet on a Spencer Rifle, because to have clearance for the bayonet stud, especially with a wide clamping ring, you would have to move the nose cap and stock tip back one full inch.

Actually, the M-1855 Rifle bayonet is not the correct bayonet for any Spencer. The correct saber bayonet is a Collins type, much like the ones used on the Sharps & Hankins Navy Rifles. If you will take a look at the photo on page 41, of Roy Marcot's book, you will see a very good photo of the proper saber bayonet hilt mounted on a Spencer Rifle. It is most definately not a M-1855 Rifle bayonet.


                             page 41, (Photo Posted by Two Flints)

In addition, the M-1855 Rifle bayonet was not used on the M-1841 Mississippi Rifle. The brass hilt saber bayonet used on the Mississippi by Harper's Ferry Armory was designed specifically for the Mississippi and used the same blade, but it eliminated the heavy decorative lug on top of the muzzle ring. The later saber bayonet adaptions to the Mississippi Rifles as done by the various states for use in the Civil War all used variations of the Collins saber bayonet.

Jobe
Society of American Bayonet Collectors (SABC)
Life Member: NRA Benefactor, NMLRA, SCA, OMSA, EAF&GC

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4055
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2012, 04:33:21 PM »
I bow to the expert, and will only say that my books are sadly dated and far too general in information!   :)
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Jobe Holiday

  • Doc's half-wit, half-brother
  • Very Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2012, 06:25:20 PM »
Thank you all, for taking this interesting discourse in the vein it was intended, a bit of fun research, and informational. Also, a BIG thanks to Two Flints for adding the photo that I couldn't.

Jobe
Life Member: NRA Benefactor, NMLRA, SCA, OMSA, EAF&GC

Offline nactorman

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 111
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2012, 09:47:13 PM »
Hi Gang,

Time for an update on the Spencer Bayonet project.

Attached are a couple of pics of original Spencer bayonets and the Armi-Sport Spencer Rifle. Notice that (as Herbert correctly surmised) the placement of the front sight on the AS Spencer is significantly different from that of an original.





The original bayonet will fit, but when attached, the bayonet's socket extends about .48 inch past the muzzle of the rifle. If the mortise of the bayonet is elongated in order to make it fit the AS Spencer, the locking ring will not engage the bottom of the sight and the bayonet will be able to slide forward and back.





The question I have now is which re-enactors might prefer:

A) An exact copy of an original Spencer Bayonet that fits incorrectly, or...

B) A reproduction bayonet that is similar in style to an original bayonet, but that has been modified so as to fit properly on the AS Spencer (but that will not fit an original Spencer).

I tend to lean toward option B, but I wanted to see what others thought.

I welcome your feedback.


Offline PvtGreg

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 327
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Spencer Rifle Bayonets - Any interest?
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2012, 09:52:20 PM »
I vote B

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk

© 1995 - 2020 CAScity.com