The new Cones, Slix-Shot Nipples

[Pettifogger]

For me the problem isn't whether the hammer just "kisses" the nipples it's whether a steady impact of the hammer on the nipple will cause problems with the hammer and/or the nipples.  Here are some shots of the nipples for the ROA.  Normally, the ROA hammer will hit the frame and there is a slight clearance, or at least minimal contact, with the nipple.  On the new nipples they are over .040" longer.  With hammers for ROAs now impossible to get and the nipples not being that cheap, I could not bring myself to shoot these nipples in my ROAs like they are.  Instead, I installed them in a pair of 1860 Army's and cut the hammer face to fit the new nipples.

First photo, a stock ROA nipple. 
Second photo, the new nipple
Third photo, comparison of length with a fired cap on each nipple.
Fourth photo, the hammer resting on a nipple with NO cap.  The hammer is over 1/16th of an inch off the frame.

[Noz]

Pettifogger. Is the reason for the new nipple allowing the use of a lighter mainspring because of the thinner edge of the nipple cone where the hammer will strike?

[Pony Racer]

Wow that is a huge visibly noteable difference...

PR

[Advertising]

[Pettifogger]

Pettifogger. Is the reason for the new nipple allowing the use of a lighter mainspring because of the thinner edge of the nipple cone where the hammer will strike?

Partially.  But, it is also believed that venting gas out of the side ports will reduce the back pressure on the hammer that comes through a nipple with a single hole.  Treso tried to reduce this pressure by making a smaller vent hole.  The Slix use a larger central hole, but vent gas out the side.  I tried a 60 Army with the new nipples and another 60 with Tresos and I could go with lower pressure springs on the Slix.

[hellgate]

" I tried a 60 Army with the new nipples and another 60 with Tresos and I could go with lower pressure springs on the Slix."
Larson,
That was one of the goals of the designers.

[Pettifogger]

" I tried a 60 Army with the new nipples and another 60 with Tresos and I could go with lower pressure springs on the Slix."
Larson,
That was one of the goals of the designers.

I know the designers very well and the only reason I bought them was to see how well they work with lighter hammer springs.  If they address the length problem on the ROA nips I'll try those in my ROAs as well.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Recon if one had a surface grinder a jig could be made and the nipple height could be fixed posthaste. 

[Fingers McGee]

Recon if one had a surface grinder a jig could be made and the nipple height could be fixed posthaste.  

Only problem with grinding the tip of the nipple is that it would change the diameter of the tip due to the taper and move the location of the cross drilled relief holes in relation to the over all length of the cone.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Only problem with grinding the tip of the nipple is that it would change the diameter of the tip due to the taper and move the location of the cross drilled relief holes in relation to the over all length of the cone.

Yep.  PLUS,  since each cone sits on a flat spot, they most likely are of differing heights/depths, you'd have to level the hole as well as the length of the nipples. 

[Fingers McGee]

OK, Here's my second report. Took my one of my Uberti 1861 Navies out with the new nipples. Also took a Pietta 1861 Navy that did not have the safety notch in the hammer filed in.

I rechecked my measurements on the Pietta and Uberti nipples and came up with theses results.

Uberti Nipples:
Factory nipple - .292
Treso nipple - .305
Slix-Shot nipple - .320

Pietta Nipples:
Factory nipple - .326
Treso nipple - .327
Slix-Shot nipple - .330

In the pictures in the original post, you can how much longer the Slix-Shot nipple is than the factory and Treso nipples.

I spent part of Thursday afternoon running a box stock .36 Pietta with the new nipples, and trying a set of the Uberti nipples. The Pietta is a 1991 vintage 1861 Navy with 6 inch barrel that is internally box stock. The only mods done to it are GWII grip frame and grips. The Load was 22 gr fffg Grafs, lubed wad and .380 cast round ball. I ran a cylinder full through it using Rem#10, Rem#11, CCI#11, and RWS1075 caps. Had a little different result with expended caps than I did with the 1860 the other day. The Rem#10s all stayed on the cylinder but were not evenly exploded. The Rem#11s also stayed put and were more even. The CCIs only split into two wings, some stayed on & some fell off. The RWS caps were by far in the worst shape, they were mangled pretty bad & mostly fell off. I'll attribute this to the safety notch not being filled in. You can see where the notch was on the expended caps.

Tried the Uberti nipples on a Uberti 1861 Navy. Same load as the Pietta, 22 gr fffg Grafs, lubed wad and .380 round ball. Being longer than both the factory and Treso nipples, I expected them to have fitment issues. Sure enough, after 3 cylinders full on the 1861, the Rem#10 caps started dragging the recoil shield. Same held true for the Rem#11, CCI#11, and RWS1075 caps. In order to keep the caps from rubbing, I had to use a push stick to seat them. The CCIs rubbed the recoil shield the most even after pushing them on. The way the caps split and shredded was pretty much the same on the Uberti 1861 as the Pietta. The JB weld has worn away some on the hammer so there was some notch present.

I got rained out before I could shoot the other two Ubertis I brought - a Navy Arms Frontiersman & a SS 1860 Army; but, given the length of the Uberti nipples, the result would have probably been the same. I screwed a couple of the nipples in on the Frontiersman and the tops extended above the rim of the cylinder. I also did not get a chance to try out a reduced power mainspring.

I'm not near as enthused about the Uberti nipple as I am the Pietta.

[Lefty Dude]

There is an explaination for which y'all speak. I shot with "Big Iron Buster" to day at the Cowtown match.

A full article will be in the April CC, written by "Tex". I am told this will answer many questions and issues we are discussing and have questions regarding the new Slix-Shot nipples. The various length issues will be fully addressed as well.

Please do not change the length of the cones, for any reason. The hammer needs to kiss the nipples for proper operation and move the cylinder forward to the barrel in the Colts & Clones. The nipples are very hard stainless and will not mushroon tihe tips.
Also the hammer should not touch the frame of the piece when it is down on a cone. Some Hammer mid-section may strike the frame, if so fiile fit accordingly. This was conveyed to me by BIB this morning at the shoot.

[Fingers McGee]

There is an explaination for which y'all speak. I shot with "Big Iron Buster" to day at the Cowtown match.

A full article will be in the April CC, written by "Tex". I am told this will answer many questions and issues we are discussing and have questions regarding the new Slix-Shot nipples. The various length issues will be fully addressed as well.

Please do not change the length of the cones, for any reason. The hammer needs to kiss the nipples for proper operation and move the cylinder forward to the barrel in the Colts & Clones. The nipples are very hard stainless and will not mushroon tihe tips.
Also the hammer should not touch the frame of the piece when it is down on a cone. Some Hammer mid-section may strike the frame, if so fiile fit accordingly. This was conveyed to me by BIB this morning at the shoot.

The hammer does more than "kiss" the Uberti nipples.  It gives them a pretty good whack.  About a .015 inch whack.  They are too long as evidenced by the fact that the caps rub the recoil sheild.

[Pettifogger]

Tex doesn't shot C&B that much and is not terribly mechanically inclined.  I am sure what information he gives will come from the maker.  The Uberti and ROA nipples are .035 to .040 longer than stock.  That is simply to long and causes problems capping problems.  With use, I am sure there will also be wear on the nipples and/or the hammers.  Even with correct length Tresos in the ROA you will see an imprint of the hammer nose on the nipples after a few hundred rounds.  The nipples have promise, but need to be made a little closer to spec.

[olnumber4]

Hi Folks,

I was part of the design process on these SliX nipples.

The prime reason for its design is from the complaint (me too) of a lot of shooters about having to use too heavy of main springs to get consistent ignition, and caps falling into the action.

For best results with these nipples use Remington #10's;;;, Rem #11's are too short to hold consistently, and  CCI #10's have too thick a cup.

Also, YES they are all a bit longer than stock, and most hammers wiill strike the nipple before hitting the frame, but to get full power from a lightenend hammer spring all the energy must hit the cap.

I suggest you all check your cylinder to barrel clearance and take up the difference there instead of trying to re-machime cylinder that aren't that close to begin with and nipples that are precise.  I tested over 250 hammer strikes on an unloaded chamber with a SliX nipple.  I pulled it out and set it on a comparometer (sp) at the factory that produces the nipple and abso;utely no deformation was measured.  This was form an 1860 Piettea clone that had medium heavy main spring and s solid nipple, no frame, contact with the hammer face notch merely braized closed.

I appreciate all the extra research you folks are doing, but please don't measure them to death or compare them to previously established standards for fit, strike and patterns of other nipples.  That's the whole idea of something new,  try adapting.

Ol' #4

[Pettifogger]

4, the Pietta nipples are reasonably close to stock and seem to work OK.  The problem with the Uberti and ROA nipples is that they are so long the capped nipple drags on the recoil shield.  That has to be addressed.  I tried them stock (simply installing the nipples) and tried "adapting."  They are simply to long for satisfactory results.

[Maj.Bull S. Hitter]

Will these fit  ASP/Euroarms 1858's and Rogers & Spencer revolvers ?

 An article in Sept/Oct 2010 The Backwoodsman . Frank Twist cross drilled 4 holes in Ampco nipples with a .031" Dremel carbide burr. The results were very good.

[Pettifogger]

3 Fingers Murphy and others.  Just to make sure everyone understands my comments, and those of others on this site, are from the perspective of people that shoot C&B a LOT and are always on the lookout for something better or at least an alternative to what is available.  Ruger no longer makes replacement nipples for the ROA so an alternative source of quality nipples is a plus.  The Slix nipples are VERY well made and VERY uniform in their dimensions.  They do allow a slightly lighter mainspring because of some of the gas exiting the sides of the nipple rather than everything going through the central vent hole.  Old Number 4 makes several excellent quality CAS accessories that work very well.  My comments and others are from shooters explaining their experiences with the new nipples.  Only through field use and reporting back to Old Number 4 can he know of any problems with this new product.  If he gets enough comments that reflect similar results, I am sure he will make any changes necessary to make the product even better.

[Fingers McGee]

I appreciate all the extra research you folks are doing, but please don't measure them to death or compare them to previously established standards for fit, strike and patterns of other nipples.  That's the whole idea of something new,  try adapting.

Ol' #4

#4, I appreciate the extent to which you and others have gone to improve the function of C&Bs in competition.  Like I stated earlier, the Pietta nipples work great and I'll be ordering some more of them.  BUT, the Uberti nipples need some work to keep the caps from rubbing the recoil sheild.  They are too long to work safely and reliably.

Regards

Fingers

[olnumber4]

Boys,  I am listening.

It was too bad that I only had newer models to work with in trying to fit the nipple dimensions.  I know for me at least I was tired of having to use X# springs to get reliable ignition and minimize caps falling between the hammer and the frame.  Plus I was tired of replacing nipple s two to three times a year.  I knew form old buckskinning days that a style like the old unncle mikes "Hot Shot" might work for us as well.

So, I gave it a go..  I liked and appreciated the outcome and thought some others would too.  I will say that for the Piettas they are grea.   I haven't had a misfire or cap lock since using the  Plus I have been able to reduce the hammer pressure so I can cock the Darned things with my small arthritic hands.

Larsen,  some ruger sre different,  I tested the fit and clearance with seven different ROA's.  Some wee close and some weren'r,  I compromised with the final dimension and it on the close side.  If you have a goood dimension I will run it by those shooting ROA's up here and next batch will may be different

Fingers,  Thanks!!!  Yes the Uberti's are areally allover the place.  I have tried to deliver the dimensio thta was closest to th etightest breach.

Oh,  well.... some of the people some of the time.....but never all of the people all the time

#4

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Ol' Mumbler 4 - (just joshin' pard)

I would like to thank you for trying to improve the shooting we all love to do!  It's cool that nearly 200 years later, some folks (like you) are still hard at work trying to perfect the tools.

Good job to you and your "helpers & cohorts" who did the work.  Time will show how well everything works, but you deserve our thanks.

Kudos!  ... And a  BIG   yahoo to ya!