Author Topic: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant  (Read 31198 times)

Offline St. George

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2012, 06:00:54 pm »
I think he's talking about a Dyer Pouch - the pouch commonly used for revolver ammunition.

McKeever Pouches were more prevalent later in the era.

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Offline FTrooper

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2012, 06:08:59 pm »
Well on the topic of better impressions and better advice, I am hoping Hop will grace us with a picture of his one of a kind and more historically correct M1880 Mills Artillery Cartridge  ;D

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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2012, 07:05:51 pm »
OK, I made another adjustment. On the advice of FTrooper I died the edges of my Mills Belt artillery red like the infantry blue one here:



I grabbed a rifle length trapdoor, threw on my coat, and popped an forage cap on my head, and took a couple of pics. I know the forage cap is the wrong style (It is too tall in the front and has bound edges) but I used is since my campaign hat was two stories up and the forage cap was here in the basement. I think the belt looks spiffy. If I bump the whole impression later to the mid 1880s the rifle works and the Mills belt works (I believe.) What do you think?




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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2012, 07:27:44 pm »
The dyed edges are pretty cool.  I had no idea they were ever made like that.  How did you dye the edges red?
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Offline FTrooper

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2012, 07:44:26 pm »
Oh that IS sexy!

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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2012, 08:24:27 pm »
The dyed edges are pretty cool.  I had no idea they were ever made like that.  How did you dye the edges red?

I used slightly thinned red acrylic paint. After the first few brush strokes I realized a little thinning would help the paint penetrate and "Dye" the fabric rather than sit on top.
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Offline FTrooper

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2012, 09:02:20 pm »
This is the belt Doug McChristian calls the "Type 3" Model 1880 Mills belt.  Made from Dec. 1880 to Nov. 1886.  It is estimated that 16,000 of these now very rare belts had been made.

Below is an example of a M1881/85 cavalry belt.

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Offline FTrooper

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2012, 09:10:27 pm »
BTW...anyone who missed the opportunity to pick up Douglas McChristain's regularly $95 two volume work "Uniforms, Arms, and Equipment: The U.S. Army on the Western Frontier 1880-1892" for $28.95 from the OU Press sale as the end of Dec. (mentioned in another thread) really missed the deal of the year!

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Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2012, 10:11:38 pm »
Many may have missed it, I not being one.
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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2012, 10:25:13 pm »
I'm glad to say I did not miss it either.
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Offline Charles Isaac

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2012, 08:31:17 am »
Fantastic job dying the belt-you look great!

Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2012, 10:44:41 am »
Thanks for the positive words
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Offline Drydock

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2012, 09:03:13 pm »
Capital letters and punctuation please.  A little expansive knowledge would not hurt, either.
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Offline Trailrider

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2012, 11:39:05 pm »
A bit of a disclaimer: I don't make the canvas Mills belts. (I haven't located a good supply of the proper weight of canvas, and frankly haven't tried too hard as I've never had a request for one.)  Wouldn't be much of a problem, as I have the industrial sewing machine that can do the job.  I do make the M1874 Dyer Pouch.  [Point of historical background to the Dyer Pouch: They were issued, but were pretty thoroughly disliked, probably because they concentrated the weight of twenty-odd .45-70 rounds.  At one point during the Big Horn & Yellowstone Expedition, troops under BG George Crook were inspected in the field by Capt. Michaelis and a lieutenant whose name I forget.  Most of the troops had discarded the Dyer pouches in favor of saddler-made prairie belts (leather loops on a leather waist belt). Michaelis finally found one sergeant who was wearing the pouch. Impressed by the "well-turned-out" NCO, he asked the man to open his pouch to reveal the cartridges inside.  Unfortunately, when the sergeant complied, the pouch was found to contain...a sandwich!  ::) ] No record of Michaelis' recommendations vis-a-vis the Dyer Pouch, but the advent of the canvas Mills belts pretty much put the quietus on the pouches.

I do like the way that red-dyed belt looks; also the blue-dyed one. 
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Offline Pitspitr

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2012, 04:50:56 am »
Capital letters and punctuation please.  A little expansive knowledge would not hurt, either.
::) Hmmm Disapearing ink again. Makes you wonder if he has regrets the morning after the night before.
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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2012, 05:38:49 am »
The regret probably hits him about the same time the munchies do.
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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2012, 09:31:39 am »
At one point during the Big Horn & Yellowstone Expedition, troops under BG George Crook were inspected in the field by Capt. Michaelis and a lieutenant whose name I forget.  Most of the troops had discarded the Dyer pouches in favor of saddler-made prairie belts (leather loops on a leather waist belt). Michaelis finally found one sergeant who was wearing the pouch. Impressed by the "well-turned-out" NCO, he asked the man to open his pouch to reveal the cartridges inside.  Unfortunately, when the sergeant complied, the pouch was found to contain...a sandwich!

I love that story! I just goes to show you how things were adapted from their original purpose.
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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2012, 10:34:40 am »
One suggestion from you all was was to update to the 1872 pattern sergeant stripes. I ordered some from Quartermaster and they arrived yesterday. They are really nicely made!

Now I just need to sew them on.
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Offline Capt.Virgil Russo

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2012, 06:14:48 pm »
The regret probably hits him about the same time the munchies do.

I think our friend may prefer something with more of an "edge".

Hop, you do awesome work!
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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2012, 07:59:23 pm »
One question I have now that I see the stripes. The very ends of the stripes are simply cut. Since they are wool they should not fray when I sew them down. My question is, should they be turned under or just sewn down?
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Offline Grapeshot

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2012, 10:36:45 am »
One question I have now that I see the stripes. The very ends of the stripes are simply cut. Since they are wool they should not fray when I sew them down. My question is, should they be turned under or just sewn down?

Most of the ones I've seen were turned under.  That doesn't mean that some were just sewn on with the raw edge visable.

Remember, you are depicting an NCO.  They usually had pride in their appearence and would want their uniforms to reflect that pride.

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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2012, 10:19:55 pm »
I just won an original artillery first sergeant stripe of the 1872 pattern at auction today. I will compare it to the ones I got from Quartermaster Shop fo our edification. I will also look at how the end is treated.
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Offline FTrooper

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2012, 03:05:34 pm »
OFFICIALLY, the edges were supposed to be let into the seams of the sleeve.  However actual items rarely if ever show this done (mainly because the sleeve are lined and you almost shave to take the whole thing apart) so mostly they are just turned under to finish them off.  Also some variants of jacket/coat didn't have two piece sleeves.  Another wonderful example of right hand and left hand government agencies not really knowing what's going on.

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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2012, 09:25:23 pm »
That is fascinating Chris! Thanks
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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2012, 12:31:26 pm »
All:
I have been going nuts looking for the link that either Hopalong or F Trooper posted that had the deminsions of the wooden ammo boxes.  I thought it was in this thread, but cannot find it.

This thread has really been interesting.  Thanks for all yall's input.

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