Author Topic: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant  (Read 32287 times)

Offline G.W. Strong

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Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« on: January 15, 2012, 04:02:46 pm »
Courtesy of the all the information and assistance you all have given me in this forum (particularly the assistance of the "Uniform Questions" thread) I have one nearly complete kit. Now I need you to critique it. I am not shy and I can take constructive criticisms well. I am also working on a circa 1890 drab kit for summer use but this one is farther along. I finished the boxes last week and last night. I set up the tent before the snow fell. I finished sewing the belt about two weeks ago and this afternoon I finished sewing the trouser stripes in place. Now the question is, what is wrong with it? What is missing? What needs to be improved?



Many more pictures below.

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/cowboy/P1011928.JPG
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George Washington "Hopalong" Strong
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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 04:11:04 pm »
For the sake of reference. Here is my kit from October.

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Offline Niederlander

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 04:55:29 pm »
I have no expertise in Army uniforms, but the latest version looks exponentially better!
"There go those Nebraskans, and all hell couldn't stop them!"

Offline Old Top

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 07:13:19 pm »
Hopalong,

It looks good and you have done a lot of work, the only thing I see is the color of the stripes, should they not be red like the leg stripes and the pipeing?

Old Top
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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 07:22:24 pm »
The uniform coat once had red stripes but they have faded badly from the sun. It used to belong to Col. Drydock.

F-troop suggested I get 1872 pattern stripes as an improvement.
George Washington "Hopalong" Strong
Grand Army of the Frontier #774, (Bvt.) Colonel commanding the Department of the Missouri.
SASS #91251
Good Guy's Posse & Bristol Plains Pistoleros
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Offline Old Top

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 07:31:01 pm »
Hopalong,

That is what I thought, the 1872 stripes can be found but they are expensive, if it is a four button coat stay with the civil war period stripes, if it is the five button it would be your call.  I have seen pictures of the cav of the peroid and they were a mixed bag of civil war and indian war with the uniform coats and belts.  What I can see looks very good, wish mine look as good.

Old Top
I only shoot to support my reloading habit.

Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 09:26:55 pm »
Mine is a 5 button coat.
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Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 10:12:54 pm »
Looks good, you have put a lot of effort into this not only the uniform and weapons but tentage and those boxes

The one very minor issue I see are the boots, they are the cav model vs the shorter artillery boots, but having said that, were you posted to a cav fort the choice may well have been a pair of cav boots that sorta fit vs bare foot or arty boots that did not come close to fitting.  Supply was probably pretty spotty back in the day.

If I overstate one of you folks more knowledgeable than I please correct me as Hopalong and I are trying to learn this stuff.
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Offline Charles Isaac

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 10:21:56 pm »
I'm no uniform expert myself, but you look outstanding-Great job Sir!!

Offline St. George

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 10:23:28 pm »
The Quartermaster supply system was working well at that time, so shorter boots would've been available.

Though the Army has always been generous about 'wear-out' periods - the various Branches stayed true to 'their' Branch and didn't co-mingle Branch-specific articles of uniform - especially if you're portraying a young First Sergeant.

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 10:23:28 pm »

Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2012, 11:36:52 pm »
Another question I have is does 1880 look bascially right for the uniform? what date would you place it at? I know it is not perfect but what is is close to?
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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 11:37:55 pm »
I also should ask what model artillery boots?
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Offline 5judge

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 08:11:13 am »
Looks good. The carbine appears to have a Buffington rear sight and, thus, notched barrel band. Believe the Buffington came in no earlier than '85. If you can find an earlier rear sight and band, they are an easy swap. Query: pretty-much all photos I've seen of artillerymen of the era shows them w/ rifles. Presume carbines were sometimes issued, especially if redlegs were mounted and served with cavalry on campaign?

Offline St. George

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 08:53:43 am »
Rifles were the norm.

A Redleg's job wasn't to go haring off after hostiles - it was to work the guns - and they rode on Caissons and supply wagons - save for a couple of NCOs.

The Artilleryman wore the Pattern 1876 Shoe - a high-topped, lace-up affair with the tongue extending 1/2" above the top.

As to the carbine's front band and Buffington sights - one nice thing about those weapons is the ease of both finding parts and the commonality of screw hole placement - thus, an 1873 rear sight will fit in the space occupied by a Buffington - spanning the Tradoor's service life.

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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2012, 11:56:59 am »
I have a rifle as well. It also has buffing ton sights. I have my eyes on another rifle at a local shop with the earlier sights as well.

Did artillery men ever wear boots? I have heard of artillery boots. Not sure what those were though.
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Offline St. George

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2012, 01:05:26 pm »
No - enlisted men wore what they were issued, and during the Civil War, they were called 'Bootees' - later changed to 'Shoes' during the Indian Wars.

A good rifle sight to keep an eye out for is the M1879 Rifle Sight - they installed that one on the Model 1875 Officer's Rifles, and it preceded the Buffington.

An order issued in 1873 (AGO G.O. 73 dtd July 10, 1873) flatly refused to issue boots to foot troops - leaving issue boots to Cavalry.

Cavalry boots were also addressed by the 1876 Uniform Board - resulting in the adoption and issuance of a boot that stood 15 1/2" high in front and 14" high in the back and a somewhat wider in circumference.

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Offline FTrooper

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2012, 04:45:30 pm »
"An order issued in 1873 (AGO G.O. 73 dtd July 10, 1873) flatly refused to issue boots to foot troops - leaving issue boots to Cavalry."

Actually, AGO G.O. 104 dtd Oct. 14, 1873 repealed order 73 and species the issue of four pair of bootees or two pair of bootees and one pair of boots to all soldiers, regardless of branch of service.

AGO (Adjutant Generals Officer) G.O. (General Order) 131 dated December 3, 1874 shows the table of Allowance of Clothing and shows 2 bootees and 1 pair of boots per year with no asterisk footnote specifying the 4 pairs of bootees with the option of two bootees and one boots to mounted men that showed up since 1857.

General Orders are alot of fun, they change so much from the regs. and often go back and fourth several times in the same year.  I have not found another repeal of boots to foot soldiers after 1875, but I also don't have a complete set of all General Order issued from 1866-1891 (they are hard to find and VERY pricy when you can). I will try to consult other sources as I can (1880's regulations I have) to see what they say about clothing issues.

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Offline Niederlander

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2012, 05:06:05 pm »
The uniform coat once had red stripes but they have faded badly from the sun. It used to belong to Col. Drydock.

F-troop suggested I get 1872 pattern stripes as an improvement.
Fading stripes were a big problem then, too.  Great job!
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Offline Drydock

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2012, 05:14:30 pm »
You can get sights and parts for the Trapdoor from  S&S.  Yer a weathered old Sgt., with weathered old stripes!   ;D

Most every photo of Artillerymen I've seen, mounted or heavys, I've seen bootees.  Makes sense to me,  The gunners, even mounted, would not be brushbusting like cavalry, but staying to roadways and open spaces for the guns.  The bootees would be more comfortable and cooler,  easier to take care of, and take up less space.

Mounted/light gunners would normaly be issued carbines, but many preferred the longer rifles with the more powerful round.  A bayonet makes more sense than the 1840 light artillery sabre when defending a gun, as well.
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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Please Critique My Kit. Circa 1880 Artillery Sergeant
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2012, 06:20:34 pm »
You can get sights and parts for the Trapdoor from  S&S.  Yer a weathered old Sgt., with weathered old stripes!   ;D
I'm very weathered!
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