Author Topic: uniform questions  (Read 53089 times)

Offline pony express

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3405
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2011, 10:09:14 am »
Check out the 2011 Grand Muster pics, you will see Cowtown Scout wearing one of the pith helmets in Khaki(and it's an origianal one at that, I have heard).

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3655
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2011, 10:32:27 am »
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3655
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2011, 10:38:12 am »
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Curley Cole

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2129
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2011, 02:54:40 pm »


we always like tryin on hats


curley
Scars are tatoos with better stories.
The Cowboys
Silver Queen Mine Regulators
dammit gang

Offline Cowtown Scout

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 345
  • TEXAS By GOD
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2011, 09:19:01 pm »
Check out the 2011 Grand Muster pics, you will see Cowtown Scout wearing one of the pith helmets in Khaki(and it's an origianal one at that, I have heard).

Indeed it is an original.  Printed inside the sweat band is:
Wm. H. Horstmann Co.
Philadelphia
Contract Aug 6, 1898

It appears to have been white but was Tea Stained for wear in the field.  Super light weight.
Scout
8) 8)
GAF #510, STORM #98, GOFWG #126, SSS #211, SBSS #1713, CVV
Life Member: SASS, LSA, ORA, Whittington Center, LSFSC, Founders Club (Gold)
Benefactor Member: NRA and TSRA, Past President TSRA

Offline G.W. Strong

  • Grand Army of the Frontier, (Bvt.) Colonel, Commander of the Department of the Missouri
  • NCOWS
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 961
  • GAF, Department of the Missouri
    • Talbot's Fine Accessories
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2011, 10:41:25 pm »
So then I guess I have to pair my rifles with my clothing.

With the clothing I wear in my pics I could shoot one of my 50/70 rifles, either my  m1870 Allin Conversion Trapdoor or my 1871 Springfield Rollingblock. For field uniform use I could use it with my 45/70 trapdoor rifle or carbine though I should probably be looking at an 1880s or 90s uniform to be truly correct.

I also have a krag that I love to shoot.

With a 1884 brown/khaki artillery uniform a pith helmet what rifle would I choose? I'm sure either the 45/70s would be good. How about the Krag?

George Washington "Hopalong" Strong
Grand Army of the Frontier #774, (Bvt.) Colonel commanding the Department of the Missouri.
SASS #91251
Good Guy's Posse & Bristol Plains Pistoleros
NCOWS #3477
Sweetwater Regulators

Offline cpt dan blodgett

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • SASS Conv 2013
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2011, 11:04:14 pm »
Late 80s and 90s.  Mid to late 90s when the khaki colored uniform came in helmet went to Khaki
http://www.nyc-techwriters.com/militaria/american_helmets1.htm

Grapeshot and Drydock know alot about them
Queen of Battle - "Follow Me"
NRA Life
DAV Life
ROI, ROII

Offline G.W. Strong

  • Grand Army of the Frontier, (Bvt.) Colonel, Commander of the Department of the Missouri
  • NCOWS
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 961
  • GAF, Department of the Missouri
    • Talbot's Fine Accessories
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2011, 11:16:39 pm »
How late was the 1884 brown/khaki uniform worn?
George Washington "Hopalong" Strong
Grand Army of the Frontier #774, (Bvt.) Colonel commanding the Department of the Missouri.
SASS #91251
Good Guy's Posse & Bristol Plains Pistoleros
NCOWS #3477
Sweetwater Regulators

Offline G.W. Strong

  • Grand Army of the Frontier, (Bvt.) Colonel, Commander of the Department of the Missouri
  • NCOWS
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 961
  • GAF, Department of the Missouri
    • Talbot's Fine Accessories
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2011, 11:17:21 pm »
By the way, I should say thanks for all the helpful information.
George Washington "Hopalong" Strong
Grand Army of the Frontier #774, (Bvt.) Colonel commanding the Department of the Missouri.
SASS #91251
Good Guy's Posse & Bristol Plains Pistoleros
NCOWS #3477
Sweetwater Regulators

Offline Old Top

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 898
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2011, 12:30:04 am »
Hopalong.

I beleive that it was in one form or another untill 1902 when the next uniform regulations came out.

Old Top
I only shoot to support my reloading habit.

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3655
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2011, 07:40:14 am »
The 1884 was worn from 1884 clear to 1908 or so,  was seen in the apache campaigns of the southwest, as well as Cuba, and the Phillipines.  I've got Edison newsreels of troops in Tampa and Daquerie, wearing 1884s.  Most of the regulars, as well as the 1st USV (Rough Riders) were wearing them at the San Juan heights.  The first 1898 Kahki's did not reach the troops until the 2nd week of July.  So you could use most any .45-70 trapdoor, and any of the Krags, with the 1884.

In his picture up there, Cowtown scout is wearing the Officer modified version of the 1884.  To the left here, I have on the 1898 Kahki.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 07:49:45 am by Drydock »
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline cpt dan blodgett

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • SASS Conv 2013
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2011, 04:15:28 pm »
Last year Scout and I were on the color guard for the opening ceremony, He in his 84 Cav and I wore my 84 Inf, we had a sailor and a couple of cav and arty guys.  Spect now days that is what ya call a joint operation.
Queen of Battle - "Follow Me"
NRA Life
DAV Life
ROI, ROII

Offline G.W. Strong

  • Grand Army of the Frontier, (Bvt.) Colonel, Commander of the Department of the Missouri
  • NCOWS
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 961
  • GAF, Department of the Missouri
    • Talbot's Fine Accessories
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2011, 05:21:25 pm »
with the later canvas leggings, what sort of shoe was worn? Are there good sites or books for information about military footwear of the second half of the 19th cenury? I have made shoes and boots for years. That feels like good winter projects in the making.
George Washington "Hopalong" Strong
Grand Army of the Frontier #774, (Bvt.) Colonel commanding the Department of the Missouri.
SASS #91251
Good Guy's Posse & Bristol Plains Pistoleros
NCOWS #3477
Sweetwater Regulators

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3655
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2011, 05:36:23 pm »
From 1885 to 1902 the standard army shoe was a black, leather soled ankle boot, 4-6 eyelets and 3 hooks.  Minor variations from different manufacturers.  The Leggings give you a great deal of flexibility, most any black leather healed shoe or boot will work.  My favorite is my old USN Boondockers..
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline pony express

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3405
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2011, 05:49:24 pm »
Here's the only place I know of that makes the correct shoe.

http://www.civilwarboots.com/war_boots.asp

Unfortunately for me, he only lists up to 11 1/2, with no EE width.

Missouri Boot and Shoe used to make them, but some antique piece of equipment he needed to make them broke, or wore out, and apparently there's not enough demand for them to replace it.

I've just been wearing some cheap black oxford type shoes from Wal Mart. Hardest part seems to be finding something with a heel properly shaped so you don't end up walking on the leather leggihg strap, and wear it out.

Offline G.W. Strong

  • Grand Army of the Frontier, (Bvt.) Colonel, Commander of the Department of the Missouri
  • NCOWS
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 961
  • GAF, Department of the Missouri
    • Talbot's Fine Accessories
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2011, 06:31:26 pm »
Since I am 10 1/2 EEEE I have had to learn to make my own period correct footwear for any reenacting I have done. I will try my hand at these.
George Washington "Hopalong" Strong
Grand Army of the Frontier #774, (Bvt.) Colonel commanding the Department of the Missouri.
SASS #91251
Good Guy's Posse & Bristol Plains Pistoleros
NCOWS #3477
Sweetwater Regulators

Offline G.W. Strong

  • Grand Army of the Frontier, (Bvt.) Colonel, Commander of the Department of the Missouri
  • NCOWS
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 961
  • GAF, Department of the Missouri
    • Talbot's Fine Accessories
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2011, 06:34:41 pm »
Can anyone provide me with clear photos of their shoes of this style?
George Washington "Hopalong" Strong
Grand Army of the Frontier #774, (Bvt.) Colonel commanding the Department of the Missouri.
SASS #91251
Good Guy's Posse & Bristol Plains Pistoleros
NCOWS #3477
Sweetwater Regulators

Offline cpt dan blodgett

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • SASS Conv 2013
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2011, 09:15:01 pm »
These from US Hist website good enough?

http://www.ushist.com/indian-wars_uniforms_us_iw_f.shtml
Queen of Battle - "Follow Me"
NRA Life
DAV Life
ROI, ROII

Online Niederlander

  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2162
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2011, 09:52:45 pm »
You guys might try Eureka Arsenal.  He carries brown prison shoes in most sizes, and it's easy to dye them black.  They look really good.  If you want a black ankle-high boot with a cap toe, search Stacy Adams Madison Boot on e-Bay.  They make a really good barracks-type shoe.  Hope that helps.
"There go those Nebraskans, and all hell couldn't stop them!"

Offline pony express

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3405
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2011, 09:59:52 pm »
These from US Hist website good enough?

http://www.ushist.com/indian-wars_uniforms_us_iw_f.shtml

I have never heard any good things about ordering from them. Haven't tried it myself, but they seem to get bad reviews online.

Offline Pitspitr

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4013
  • 308 214-0082 45551 Rd 816, Sargent NE 68874 USA
    • Grand Army of the Frontier
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2011, 06:10:12 am »
I have never heard any good things about ordering from them. Haven't tried it myself, but they seem to get bad reviews online.
+1

I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
NRA CRSO, RVWA IIT2; SASS ROI, ROII;
NRA Patron Life; AZSA Life; NCOWS Life

Offline cpt dan blodgett

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • SASS Conv 2013
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2011, 10:25:46 am »
I have never heard any good things about ordering from them. Haven't tried it myself, but they seem to get bad reviews online.

I have not ordered anything from them either.  Simply gave link to provide pics of period shoes.
Queen of Battle - "Follow Me"
NRA Life
DAV Life
ROI, ROII

Offline G.W. Strong

  • Grand Army of the Frontier, (Bvt.) Colonel, Commander of the Department of the Missouri
  • NCOWS
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 961
  • GAF, Department of the Missouri
    • Talbot's Fine Accessories
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2011, 12:17:34 pm »
I found some nice pictures online of a pair of surviving originals. I think I can make these. They are similar in many ways to Federal Brogans. It will take a few months but I will post pictures when I have finished them.



In the meantime I have questions about hats.  (Yes, I am full of questions!) The hat I am wearing in my pitcutre has a bound edge and the brim looks too wide to be a regulation hat. I was planning on trimming it to 3 1/2 inches and using steam and hat stiffener to give it a more military shape. I will add the wool hat cord I just ordered form Coon Creek yesterday. Does that sound like a good idea?
George Washington "Hopalong" Strong
Grand Army of the Frontier #774, (Bvt.) Colonel commanding the Department of the Missouri.
SASS #91251
Good Guy's Posse & Bristol Plains Pistoleros
NCOWS #3477
Sweetwater Regulators

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3655
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2011, 05:32:22 pm »
Well, the narrower brim would be correct, but the color would still be wrong.  Should be a light brown/tan color.  (what the army considered "Drab" back then)  Maybe just pin up the front and call it "F" troop!   ;D
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline G.W. Strong

  • Grand Army of the Frontier, (Bvt.) Colonel, Commander of the Department of the Missouri
  • NCOWS
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 961
  • GAF, Department of the Missouri
    • Talbot's Fine Accessories
Re: uniform questions
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2011, 06:19:30 pm »
Alright then, I will leave it alone and just let it be what it is, a cowboy hat.

I have a black one on order from Coon creek. I will order a drab one as well.
George Washington "Hopalong" Strong
Grand Army of the Frontier #774, (Bvt.) Colonel commanding the Department of the Missouri.
SASS #91251
Good Guy's Posse & Bristol Plains Pistoleros
NCOWS #3477
Sweetwater Regulators