Manhattan Conversion?

[Grizzly Adams]

Anyone have a 51/60 with a Manhattan Conversion done to it?  Pics would be good.

GA

[Mogorilla]

What exactly is a manhattan conversion?  I have heard the term before, but no clue what defines it.   I had originally thought it applied to the manhattan revolver that was essentially a patent rip off of the colt 51 navy. 

[Grizzly Adams]

What exactly is a manhattan conversion?  I have heard the term before, but no clue what defines it.   I had originally thought it applied to the manhattan revolver that was essentially a patent rip off of the colt 51 navy. 

As I understand it, it is a modification done on the Colts pattern revolvers that consists of installing a cap shield or gate in the hammer channel to prevent the caps from falling back into the action and jamming up the piece.  It also requires the hammer to be machined to allow it to pass through the shield.  It may be that the Manhattan revolver utilized such a device?  I don't know, just trying to find out more about it.

[Forty Rod]

Contact Rowdy Yates.  He's done a lot of them and can probably provide pics.

[Grizzly Adams]

I thought about Rowdy, but his website makes no mention of it.  I will call him if no one else can help.  Thanks, Forty Rod.

[Capt Billy]

Here is a picture of one of Rowdy's Manhattan Conversions...done on a 51 Colt Navy.

[Pettifogger]

Some silver solder two little plates, one on each side of the hammer channel.  I mill a slot, silver solder in a solid plate and then mill the notch.  You also have to narrow the hammer face.

[Grizzly Adams]

Thanks, gents!  That's what I needed to know.

[Montana Slim]

Okay, pics are up..thanks.
Another question...

Who invented & when ?

Never heard of any period weapons having such modification.
Thanks!
Slim

[Pettifogger]

Okay, pics are up..thanks.
Another question...

Who invented & when ?

Never heard of any period weapons having such modification.
Thanks!
Slim

No one said it was period.  The purpose is to put Colts on an equal footing in competition with Remingtons and Rugers.  And, yeah I've heard all the blah, blah about Colts being reliable if set up properly.  (And I set them up with and without cap guards.)  The point is when you are shooting in competition you want to eliminate every possible thing that can go wrong.  I'm not sure who applied the term "Manhattan" conversion to the modern guns.  I don't know if it is coincidence or by design that the term was used, but some of the original Manhattan revolvers from the Civil War had a thin metal plate that fit between the cylinder and frame to help keep cap frags from jamming the gun.  I see them all the time.  They work a little different than the current so-called "Manhattan" conversion, but there was an effort back in the day to achieve the same result.  Couldn't find a picture of an original to post.  First time I was actually looking for one and couldn't find a picture of one off of the antique action sites.

Ah, found one.  Here is an actual "Manhattan" with a cap guard.  You can see the plate between the cylinder and frame.

[Capt Billy]

I really can't think that it's all THAT new...a friend showed me his (end of) 19th century Remington that had one mounted on it!

[Mako]

I really can't think that it's all THAT new...a friend showed me his (end of) 19th century Remington that had one mounted on it!

Billy,
The Remingtons didn't need it. They already had a hammer slot and the hammer designed to be the width more or less of the cap. The pictures of Rowdy's and Pettifogger's conversions basically make the slot width the same as a Remington.

What model Remington did he show you?

And I believe what Pettifogger said is right.  The "Manhattan Conversion" is a modern term.  It is allowable under SASS as a "conversion" because there is a precedent type on period pistols.  The precedent is the plate at the breech face on some of the Manhattan revolvers.

~Mako

[Pettifogger]

I really can't think that it's all THAT new...a friend showed me his (end of) 19th century Remington that had one mounted on it!

Remingtons didn't have anything mounted on them as they are solid frames and not open topped like the Colt.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I know it's "blah blah" but after I changed out the cones for Tresos and used tight fitting Remmy #10's on my Colt style guns I rarely, & I mean RARELY, had cap fragments "choke" up a gun. Of course I wasn't shootin' 'em "Fanner Fifty" style either!! 

[Pettifogger]

I know it's "blah blah" but after I changed out the cones for Tresos and used tight fitting Remmy #10's on my Colt style guns I rarely, & I mean RARELY, had cap fragments "choke" up a gun. Of course I wasn't shootin' 'em "Fanner Fifty" style either!! 

Key word being "rarely."  Only takes one at a major match and you have lost.  I've shot EOT and Winter Range with stock and modified guns and they both did well.  If nothing else, the cap guard mod gives you a little peace of mind and that an actually can help in a big match.

[Capt Billy]

Mako,
I have no idea what model Remington it was, but it had the gap that looked just like mine that Rowdy did.

[Coffinmaker]

Aw cummon you guys.  A Manhattan Conversion is when you substitute Vodka for the Vermouth.  Everybody knows that!!!!

Sheesh

Coffinmaker

[Montana Slim]

Having never heard or seen of such a mod, I assumed it is a modern invention. Guess this is one more item on my list of why I'm not a SASS member. But, that doesn't stop me from supporting my local SASS clubs...or lending a helping hand when I can. I don't recall SASS polling clubs/members on this one...Ha!, but I do recall being polled about the Henry Big-boy & we all know how that went.

Yup, I've know that having high reliability C&B revolvers (and the skill to properly/promptly clear the rare malfunction) are essential to good placement in Frontiersman....That has been a significant factor in my placement over the years.

Other non-period innovations are already closing the gap on skillful use of true period-style weapons. Stage design can be a killer, too....when there are 6+ shotgun targets on stages & your the only shooter using a side-hammered-double.

Slim

[Grizzly Adams]

Having never heard or seen of such a mod, I assumed it is a modern invention. Guess this is one more item on my list of why I'm not a SASS member. But, that doesn't stop me from supporting my local SASS clubs...or lending a helping hand when I can. I don't recall SASS polling clubs/members on this one...Ha!, but I do recall being polled about the Henry Big-boy & we all know how that went.

Yup, I've know that having high reliability C&B revolvers (and the skill to properly/promptly clear the rare malfunction) are essential to good placement in Frontiersman....That has been a significant factor in my placement over the years.

Other non-period innovations are already closing the gap on skillful use of true period-style weapons. Stage design can be a killer, too....when there are 6+ shotgun targets on stages & your the only shooter using a side-hammered-double.

Slim

The "Manhattan Modification" is listed as a legal modification under SASS Firearms Covenents, in the SASS Shooters Handbook, and has been for many years:

SHB P.7 Frames and Receivers:

"Percussion revolvers may be converted to accommodate cartridge firing mechanisms common to the period. They may also be modified by adding a narrow cap guard to the recoil shield and undercut the hammer (i.e., Manhattan modification). Reproduction percussion revolvers may have the frame contoured to approximate original type designs."

[Fox Creek Kid]

I think about the only thing NOT allowed in SASS at this point is using a machine gun. Of course, that may be with non-disintegrating links only!!