Spencers, Jams, and Bullets

[JimBob]

I have been digesting all the information on the repro Spencers and the various problems folks are having.  Read most of ORI in Two Flints sticky at the top.  It appears to me when the makers back engineered these, they didn't consider the commonly available bullet types now compared to what was originally used.  

I have several original rounds and looked at the information on Spencer cartridges in Thomas's Round Ball to Rimfire books, mostly pointed nose lead bullets with very little or no flattening of the point.  Are there any current molds suitable that would cast a pointed lead bullet close to the original within safety margins considering the bullet/primer relationship in a tubular magazine for the current repros?  

Or is a lot of the jamming more in the nature of cartridge OAL problems or hardness/softness of the bullet?  Or simply a matter of polishing and rounding critical areas so the flatter nosed bullets available will feed more reliably?

[Two Flints]

Jim Bob,

From the many SSS members who have contributed to the loading and feeding SORI threads - two very important areas for improved feeding are (1) correct OAL and (2) "polishing and removal of burrs and any machined irregularities" found within the action/receiver areas.  But, use flat-nosed bullets for safety, always.

Two Flints

[JimBob]

I noticed a lot of very good info on number 2.Think I'm gonna take a good look at that before I go a shooting. Not quite warm enough to cast bullets yet.I have the Lee mold referenced in one of the threads,may get it altered like that as I've got a couple of them as well as the regular Lyman mold recommended for the Taylor Spencer.

[Advertising]

[Two Flints]

JimBob,

Read the offerings of Herbert, one of the SSS loading experts, he offers great technical information.

Two Flints

[JimBob]

JimBob,

Read the offerings of Herbert, one of the SSS loading experts, he offers great technical information.

Two Flints

LOL Herbert has a lot of posts,this is gonna take awhile.

[Two Flints]

This is a good starting point:

discussion of OAL and polishing receiver area by Herbert and other SSS members.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,34584.0.html

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,30206.0.html


You can always try to do a search of "Herbert" and "OAL"?

Two Flints

[Herbert]

OAL in the Armi Sports 56-50 cartridge should be from 1.58 to no longer than 1.61,there are a few good bullets that feed best(the shortened Lee mould ,the Buffalow arms JIM-515-375 are two)if you want very good acuracy it takes a bit of a sacrifice(longer bullet and lower velocity) this will depend on weather you have a rifle or a carbine because they have difrent twist rates so the bullet lenth and velocity is diffrent,OAL has to stay the same so these loads are strictly target loads

[JimBob]

OAL in the Armi Sports 56-50 cartridge should be from 1.58 to no longer than 1.61,there are a few good bullets that feed best(the shortened Lee mould ,the Buffalow arms JIM-515-375 are two)if you want very good acuracy it takes a bit of a sacrifice(longer bullet and lower velocity) this will depend on weather you have a rifle or a carbine because they have difrent twist rates so the bullet lenth and velocity is diffrent,OAL has to stay the same so these loads are strictly target loads

Hi Herbert,

I have the rifle.It was purchased from Cimarron Arms about 2 years ago,I assume they were all made by Armi Sport. The twist rate if I'm deciphering the information correctly is 1 in 20 inches.

[Herbert]

Hi Herbert,

I have the rifle.It was purchased from Cimarron Arms about 2 years ago,I assume they were all made by Armi Sport. The twist rate if I'm deciphering the information correctly is 1 in 20 inches.

1 in 20 is corect for the rifle,acuracy with short bullet in this rifle is terible butt it can be made to shoot very acuratly with the Buffalow Arms JIM 515-440 Bullet and 27gr of a good BP(Swiss is the best but expencive,if they sell it over there Wano PP is also very good)the trouble is you are going to have to youse difrent sight settings over short distances and the front sight will have to be lowers to .25 inch high then youse the standard sight fine at 6 O-clock at 50 yd and at a hundred youse the 200yd sight fine at 6 O-clock,you will be suprised how acurate this load is(this load is too slow for the 1 in 26 twist of the carbine,it needs to be uped to 674 fps) or better still have your barell relined to 1 in 36 twist and you can get very good acuracy with a shorter bullet with more velocity and see what the originals were capable of

[JimBob]

I think if it came to re-lining it,it'd either go down the road or get an octagon barrel and Gemmerized.Wish the makers would have done a little more homework on these for what they cost.

[JimBob]

Herbert,

Any likely looking candidates among this group http://www.montanabulletworks.com/500_Linebaugh.html

[Herbert]

Herbert,

Any likely looking candidates among this group http://www.montanabulletworks.com/500_Linebaugh.html

In  all these the crimp groove it to close to the nose,if you want to try pre cast bullets BACO has .515 diameter 425gr SPG lubed bullets that look good or you could buy the Lee 515-450 mould for less,I am not sure of the size of the meplat on these but if it is over .22 it will be OK,these bullets will alowe you to crimp .48 out of the case to give you OAL of 1.61 wich works very well in my rifle,but I had to lower the cam slitly to achive this

[JimBob]

Got the Lee mold,use it for the .50-70 Trapdoors and the Lyman 515139.May have one or two other .515 molds,haven't messed with those for a good while and stuff is all in boxes.

[Herbert]

Got the Lee mold,use it for the .50-70 Trapdoors and the Lyman 515139.May have one or two other .515 molds,haven't messed with those for a good while and stuff is all in boxes.

Seems you might have enough moulds,check for one between .975 and .92  inches long these will leave enough room for the powder and be the right lenth,you may have to remove the decaping pin from your FL sizer after loading and run the loaded cartridges through this as somtimes the .515 bullet will expand the case causing it to be slitly bulged,runing through the FL sizer will fix this and feeding will be good,I allso youse a compesion die to settle the powder this keeps the base of the bullet squar very important for acuracy