cap & ball cylinder press

[NEIL]

Looking for recommendations on cap & ball reloading tools (cylinder press).  I found one on the big lube web site.  What else is available?

Thanks
 

[rickk]

I have the one sold by Black Dog Cartridge.  Their web site is hard to past a link to specific products for some reason. :

http://www.blackdawgecartridge.com

It was originally sold by Powder, Inc, and is called the "Powder, Inc. C&B Cylinder Loader"

I like it except for the fact that the main rod is held in place with a single bolt that comes up through the base and it is constantly loosening up. It needs a locating key of some sort to make that stop happening. I may simply MIG weld it in place some day.

If Dick's "Big Lube Tower Of Power" was available when I was shopping for one I would have gotten Dick's instead. As near as I can tell from the picture it is very similar with the exception of replacing the annoying single rod that always comes loose with a more permanent structural member.

[Mako]

Neil,
I use a loading press for almost all of my revolver shooting.  I pretty much exclusively use 1860s in competition.   I will tell you right now of the commercially available cylinder loaders available today I like Dick's press on the Big Lube site.  He refined a design that had become unavailable at the time,  it is sturdier than the original design and well thought out.

I don't have one of Dick's Presses, my press is custom made.  It meets a particular set of needs I established.  What are you looking for, your needs determine what you need?  There are a few other options but they have limitations.

Tell us a bit about what you're needs are and what you would like it to do for you.  What calibers do you shoot?  What pistols?  That is an important starting point in determining which press to pursue.

There has already been quite a bit of discussion about loaders, if you tell us more we can direct you to the relevant thread.

Regards,
Mako

[Advertising]

[NEIL]

I shoot 1858 Remington replicas in .44 cal and I also have a colt .44 that is used occasionally.  Use round balls exclusively.  I am not a target shooter just a plinker.

Thank you for the help. 

[Mako]

I shoot 1858 Remington replicas in .44 cal and I also have a colt .44 that is used occasionally.  Use round balls exclusively.  I am not a target shooter just a plinker.

Thank you for the help. 

Neil,
Then you have to have a press that can adjust for the different chamber circles about the arbor pin and you need one that has two arbor pin diameters.  The small one for the Remington pattern pistols and one for the Colt's pattern (Rugers will usually fit on the Remington arbors).  There is a very inexpensive press out there but it is set up for either Colt's or Remingtons.

I'll show you some of the differences.

Regards,
Mako

[Dick Dastardly]

We engineered out the problems with the other cylinder loading stand.  Our unit is all welded and can't come out of adjustment.  All the stationary parts are powder coated for absolute durability.  I've sold many of them and have had very few complaints.  They are easily changed from Remington to Colt and from .36cal to .44cal.

DD-DLoS

[rickk]

Hi Dick, I didn't know you were powder coating your version.

That is the other issue I have with the Powder, Inc one.

It comes in raw steel. There is a fine coating of rust all over it right now. In a way, it is cool... a browned finish, but it needs to be cleaned and coated with Ballistol after every use or it would probably degenerate.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Powder Inc (I buy lots of powder from them), and the loader they make works well, but it seems like Dick has worked out solutions to a couple of problems.

[Pettifogger]

rickk, that's called patina.

[rickk]

Yup, "Patina"... that's why I referred to it as "cool".

As long as "Patina" doesn't turn into "rust", I will be happy. I guess it is "Patina" as long as it works, and then "rust" when it stops working.

[Mako]

Neil,
Prepare for information overload…

Below are a bunch of different loaders some commercial, some homemade, some modified commercial.
Commercial:
BIG LUBE^TM Tower of Power
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/CylinderLoaderBig-1-1.jpg

http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.aspx?ItemID=1302742a-9e12-41e5-881f-f99340c6d9e6
$69.00

Powder Inc. C&B Cylinder Loader
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/CYL3.jpg

http://www.blackdawgecartridge.com/cgi-bin/bdstore/perlshop.cgi?ACTION=enter&thispage=bd_cyl_loader.html&ORDER_ID=!ORDERID!
$63.95

RAI Loading Stand
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/dscn2507_4qig.jpg

http://richardsonairmotive.com/Home_Page.php
$59.95

Buffalo Arms Loader
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/RMC11244.jpg

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,8026.html
$31.49

Dixie Gunworks
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/GA0203.jpg

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=13876
$37.95

Traditions Loader
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/s7_217560_842_01.jpg

http://www.cabelas.com/black-powder-accessories-revolver-cylinder-loading-stand-1.shtml?type=product&WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleBaseUSA&WT.z_mc_id1=753165&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=F89B9052-F5D2-DF11-82EF-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA
$19.99
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00139A1309
$12.19

Pietta Loader
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/Pietta.png

http://www.auctionarms.com/closed/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7185027.0
AuctionArms $25.00

Defunct commercial attempts…
6Gun4Fun (Triple P Loader) also went by ShotgunEddy   AKA Tim Cook
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/DSCF1097.jpg

Showed up in 2008 claiming the best thing since sliced bread.  Made a nice device, but by all accounts from multiple people stiffed he was just trying to leverage a design he “bought” from an older BP shooter and when the market wasn’t heading to the moon he cut and ran.  

He was caught on this forum by a friend of mine and Hellgate outright trying to deceive us.  

Disappeared in 2009, according to Tommy his claim on patent(s) was just (a) provisional patent that didn’t make the initial reviewers cut.  He has since dropped out of sight everywhere including his extensive dealings on ebay as well under the user name “Vtgtreasuresgalore”.   I know the previous information because  I had to listen one night for almost four hours about his activities from Tommy who is a patent attorney.   I know about the ebay activities because I have been contacted by an individual from another froum trying to get his money back or the loader he ordered.

Individual Loaders
Mine:
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/Mako2.jpg
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/Mako1.jpg
Others:

Modifications to the short arm on the RAI Commercial Loader:
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/P1010348.jpg
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/Loader_mod_01.jpg[img http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/Loader_mod_02.jpg
A partial Reverse Engineering of the Triple P Loader:
I pointed out the basic elements of the loader and an individual on a different forum took the basic features and modeled a similar device.
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/loadstand_01.jpg

Godzilla… (6 at once)

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/Press.jpg http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/Cylinderfixture.jpg

Others:

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/loadern.jpg http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/cyloader.jpg
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/Loader1.jpg

Going back to the commercial loaders, you will find you get what you pay for.  Dick’s is the best performing and well made of the current crop.  It resists twisting and maintains alignment.  As you move down the list you see several that are simple arms with a rear fulcrum point and no adjustment to cylinder height or diameter differences.  The Traditions model can be bought as cheaply as $12.19, and you get exactly that, a $12 loader.
 
The RAI loader is well made but has several shortcomings including short lever arm and the fact it tips very easily as shown in the videos of it being used.  Two shooters have modified their loaders as shown above, note one of them added a spring to help in the use.  There is no arbor to locate the cylinder, it requires the operator to align it by sight.

The loaders marketed by Dixie and Buffalo Arms appear to be the same.  They work relatively well, but are caliber specific and only have one well for the ratchet bearing surface.  By all accounts I have heard they are better than the Traditions loader.  I had a Pietta loader once and it broke.  I built my loader several years ago when it was almost impossible to get  the old “Black Dog” loader which is the same reason DD brought out the enhanced and redesigned version.

What else would you like to know?

Regards,
Mako

[Mako]

Hi Dick, I didn't know you were powder coating your version.

That is the other issue I have with the Powder, Inc one.

It comes in raw steel. There is a fine coating of rust all over it right now. In a way, it is cool... a browned finish, but it needs to be cleaned and coated with Ballistol after every use or it would probably degenerate.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Powder Inc (I buy lots of powder from them), and the loader they make works well, but it seems like Dick has worked out solutions to a couple of problems.

Shasta had that problem.  He tried to cold blue it and it wouldn't take so he painted his.

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/PowderIncCylinderLoader1-1.jpg

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/PowderIncCylinderLoader4.jpg

[Pettifogger]

Great shots.  I tried almost all of them (including the Triple 6) but had not seen the RAI before.  Watched the video, it definitely needs a longer rammer arm and an arbor.  I like to drop all five balls and then seat them all once they are in the machine.  Here's mine.  Compound leverage and made specifically for the ROA.  Been using it for over ten years.  Finally had to replace the ram and bushing last year, but everything else has held up well.

[Dick Dastardly]

From all that's said, the Tower of Power Big Lube®LLC product isn't the lowest price, but they stay out there and keep on working.  BTW, they do have a pretty small footprint.  That was not an accident cuz I wanted to be able to easily mount mine on my folding gun cart.

The thing I like about using a cylinder loading stand for SASS shooting is that I can pull the cylinders from my guns at the unloading table and load them at my gun cart between chores and visiting.  Then, I put the cylinders back in my pistols at the loading table and cap them there.  I can enjoy Frontiersman shooting and still have plenty of time to spend with the pards as well as picking up brass, running the timer or spotting.

DD-DLoS

[Bishop Creek]

From all that's said, the Tower of Power Big Lube®LLC product isn't the lowest price, but they stay out there and keep on working.  BTW, they do have a pretty small footprint.  That was not an accident cuz I wanted to be able to easily mount mine on my folding gun cart.

The thing I like about using a cylinder loading stand for SASS shooting is that I can pull the cylinders from my guns at the unloading table and load them at my gun cart between chores and visiting.  Then, I put the cylinders back in my pistols at the loading table and cap them there.  I can enjoy Frontiersman shooting and still have plenty of time to spend with the pards as well as picking up brass, running the timer or spotting.

DD-DLoS

I really like your loader Dick. Problem is that I have so many cap 'n ball revolvers; 1860 3rd Gen Colt .44, 1858 Remingtons .44, .36, etc. Would your loader work with a 2nd Gen Colt 1862 Police in .36 cal?

P.S. I lost the link to your website. Can you post it for me?

[rickk]

Mako, looks like not only did he paint it, but he also welded the "tower" rod in place as well.

Both are good ideas.

I wonder why he only painted a couple parts of it? On mine, the rust has not been all that particular... there is a coating of it everywhere. I've got some POR-15 in the shed. It LOVES a little bit of rust, and it don't come off. Another project for when the snow melts.

[Bushrod]

Ebay has one of the best for $49.95 free shipping!

Just go to ebay and type in --black powder pistols loading stand

Check it out you won't be disappointed.

[Mako]

Ebay has one of the best for $49.95 free shipping!

Just go to ebay and type in --black powder pistols loading stand

Check it out you won't be disappointed.

Bushrod,
Do you mean this one?

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cylinder%20Loaders/Untitled.jpg

That is an RAI Loading Stand already shown in my comprehensive listing above.  Before he jumps on this he should review the sales video in the link below and read Pettifogger's and my comments about it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBw8GYb7JEg
[/youtube]

I guess you could spend another $49.95 to make it usable like the two other modified RAI stands also shown above.  Go back and look at the lever arms, attached bases and in one case arm spring.

Interestingly enough, William has just introduced a new model as of yesterday which has a longer 7 inch handle called the "Buffalo Hunters" model.  It is $69.95.  He's been working on it for a while, I'll bet he was seeing the additional traffic and decided it was time to debut it, or it was a really strange coincidence.

Or......he could buy one of Dick's for $69.00 and just get the best of the bunch.

I'm not against William's original stand he now calls the "Plainsman," He obviously is addressing some of the shortcomings (though not all) with the lever.  Don't believe me, watch his own video I have posted above and tell me where it has problems.

I'm all for tinkering and hot rodding anything, just look at my loader which is a simple lever on steroids.  I just think that the RAI would take more than $20 of work to get it to the standard of the Tower of Power.  

I have seen those auctions where he is trying to move the original model at $50.  If I could get one for $30 I'd buy it and add all of the other features it needs to bring it up to the level of the Powder Inc. or DDs press.  It needs:

• A much longer arm
• A larger base
• An Arbor to control the chamber position
• Multiple Arbors for different firearms
• A return spring on the handle

Of course by adding the Arbor I have made the other features necessary, but the support ring he uses and having to align it by eye are a pain.  I know I've used one.  I used every type imaginable.  I like the quality of Richard's press which is why I would use it as the basis for making a good one.

It's all about having fun and tinkering at this point for me, I'm just not sure if that is what the original poster was looking for.  I think he just wanted something that worked well to begin with.

Just my my 2 cents...

Have a great day Bushrod,
Mako

[Pettifogger]

One thing he did on the new model which seems counter productive is that he moved the plunger further away from the fulcrum.  Looks like even with the longer lever, it still will take about the same effort to seat a ball.

[Mako]

One thing he did on the new model which seems counter productive is that he moved the plunger further away from the fulcrum.  Looks like even with the longer lever, it still will take about the same effort to seat a ball.

Pettifogger,
Excellent point, I just happened to notice he had it up this morning without really analyzing it.  I think he primarily moved it to get it away from the riser post because it gets in the way when trying to align the cylinder under it by hand and eyeball.

Your loader uses a linkage to multiply the force and I have a big lever arm and big grip on mine to give the leverage you need to easily seat a ball.  I know William has his base drilled to allow mounting, but that sort of defeats the purpose of a tool meant for the range.  Mounting is okay if it is just to put it on a cart or something, but it needs to be stable and resist the lever torque on its own own.  

If you look at my rig it is self contained and very portable.  I have a box (carrier) sort of like you do with everything in it but I normally set the loader on the table top to use it.  Stability while pressing the balls in was a high priority for me.

~Mako

[Sacramento Johnson]

Howdy!
 I've looked at all these stands, and see one has to take the cylinder off to load it.  What sort of stand can I get to cradle a '58 remmie while loading it, with the cylinder still in the gun?  I don't have multiple cylinders and do not want to lug around a big heavy steel device.  I would prefer something made of wood with quality. Thanks!