Vintage Hunting and NCOWS

[dusty texian]

Howdy Rowdy,Looks like you got a good  OleTom while I was gone hunting in West Texas .Congradulations my friend.That is cool doing it the old way Vintage hunting is special. You need to come out to the desert next yr. We have room in the cabin for someone that can cook and likes vintage hunting.I had some luck also'got a Desert Mule deer with my C. Sharps 45-120 cal.Shot him on the last day of my 10 day hunt,saw lots of Mule Deer bucks and Doe. Made a shot on him after a early morning stalk. Was on the bluff over him at about 267 paces down to the desert floor ' made my shot off of my rest sticks I made.Promised a pic. of a deer if I got one ' or me a trying ,so here he is not as big as some I saw but was mature and I did it the old way Sharps and black powder cartridge .We were hunting my place in Brewster Co. Tx. my Brother and I,he got a Mt. Lion on our first day out hunting .I will post a pic. of him to.   Dusty.

[dusty texian]

Here is my Brother with his Mt. Lion 'he took on our hunt this past wk. on my Mule Shoe ranch Brewster Co. Tx. Lots a cats down on the border. Dusty.

[dusty texian]

Thats a lot of bacon Raton Rick.Congratulations .

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[Rowdy Fulcher]

Dusty
Excellent job ,love the rifle with the scope . That is one fine looking set up , and it shoots as good as it looks . Nice Mulie and the Mt. Lion sweet . Have you ever had time to drop the state of Texas a letter about Vintage Hunting ? What I'm proposing for Ky is to let the use of Black Powder Cartridge weapons using black or sub during the Muzzle Loader season . I figure if a Hunter can use a Scoped out Remington 700 Muzzle Loader with sabot ammo why not a 1873 Winchester in 44wcf using Vintage Hunting Ammo .

[Cliff Fendley]

Rowdy, I think the argument will be because you can load the magazine in the 73 and shoot all week but you have to take the time to reload that 700 ML which requires a bit of time a quite a bit of movement.

Even though the inline muzzleloaders are very powerful and pretty darn accurate you still have to load them in all the same steps any other percussion capped rifle.

A actually have a scoped 700ML and from experience can say even when shooting with 209 primers there is that ever so slight delay in ignition compared to the instant ignition with black powder cartridges.

I don't know how the ignition speed is on these even newer inlines, honestly it has all gotten out of hand and away from what the muzzleloader season was supposed to be about.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they would make a new season or make at least one of our muzzleloader seasons where you have to use more primitive weapons with no inlines and no scope. Just old fashion cap or flintlock.

[pony express]

I don't know how the ignition speed is on these even newer inlines, honestly it has all gotten out of hand and away from what the muzzleloader season was supposed to be about.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they would make a new season or make at least one of our muzzleloader seasons where you have to use more primitive weapons with no inlines and no scope. Just old fashion cap or flintlock.

New change for this year in Missouri, they changed Muzzle loader season to "alternative methods", to include modern handguns.So you can use a scoped .500 S&W or .480 Ruger, but a '73 Win with BP is a no-no.

[Cliff Fendley]

New change for this year in Missouri, they changed Muzzle loader season to "alternative methods", to include modern handguns.So you can use a scoped .500 S&W or .480 Ruger, but a '73 Win with BP is a no-no.

That's one of the dumbest things I've heard. I use a scoped handgun a lot but thats modern gun season.

[dusty texian]

Howdy ,Rowdy , I have sent a letter to TP&W stating that I would like to see Texas have a black powder deer season that would allow the use of black powder cartridge rifles as long as they were designed before 1895 original or reproduction. I am waiting for response .Hope for the best. But will not give up if I get a NO.I through the design deal in there in case I got a responce that you never know what powder is in a cartridge . Thats the pre 1895 reason or (primitive arms ) season route . Dusty.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
The time is NOW  to start sending letters to the Fish and Wildlife in your state . I think that NCOWS has a chance as a organization to make a difference . We the members can all work together to make this happen , that is the members who want this . We have members in several states . I would like to see the use of Black Powder Cartridge weapons added to what is presently the Muzzle Loading season . Yes if this happens , they will rename it to Black Powder or Vintage Hunting season , the name doesn't matter as long as we can use our Weapon's . What is your opinion ?
 We need people from every state to HELP with this who's in . How many Kentuckian's will help me I need your HELP .

[pony express]

That's one of the dumbest things I've heard. I use a scoped handgun a lot but thats modern gun season.

I agree, I guess their reasoning must be a need to increase the harvest, deer are really plentiful here, sometimes to the point of being pests. We already have mid Sept-Mid Jan for bow season, plus 10days firearms, 10 more firearms antlerless only, plus the 10 days of "alternative methods" and two weekends of youth firearms. Many towns in my area are starting to have special "in town" bow hunts to try and control them.

[dusty texian]

Howdy Rowdy. Well Texas Parks &Wildelife  sent me my answer back ,The answer was that the use of bp. cartridge guns is allowed (now) in Regular season( I think I knew that since I have been hunting with one for some yrs now).And that Muzzeloader only season is (muzzeloader only) well that makes sense too, but did not answer my question ,(Why cant bp. cartridge guns be used during Muzzeloader season). I am going to keep trying to get the bp. cartridge guns to be legal during Muzzeloader season. Muzzeloader season here in Tx. is held after Regular season.This yr. I think it starts Jan. 7 -20 . Keep in mind here in Tx. we can use muzzeloaders or bp. cartridge guns in regular season .This season usually runs about two months Nov.-Dec.  And that is after our Archery season in Oct. So we can Start with Bows and crossbows for a month,then go to centerfire guns rifle or pistol bp. or modern,then a two wk Muzzeloader season. A heck of a long time ! Not asking for another season just let us use the bp. cartridge guns in Muzzeloader season.  I dont think I or anyone would be taking advantage of the game hunting with bp. cartridge firearms after all other seasons are over  ie. Muzzeloader season.The game by then are usually up to speed that they are being hunted .Will just keep plugging who knows , They might change their rules . Dusty Texian.

[Cliff Fendley]

A cartridge gun is a cartridge gun, a muzzleloader is a muzzleloader. Regardless of what powder is used in each.

Savage makes a muzzleloading rifle that is safe for certain types of smokeless powder. But it is a muzzleloader. You don't have that quick follow up shot for that herd of deer.

You can load cartridges with many types of powder, including black.

What makes a cartridge rifle any more primitive when it comes to hunting by using black powder? You have smoke and that's it. Generally your not taking hunting shots with the speed of cowboy action shooting so how does smokeless powder give you any advantage in something like a 73 Winchester? You are only safely going to push a bullet and so many fps out of a particular rifle and caliber.

[dusty texian]

What you say is true Cliff.But my cap& ball side hammer full stock  muzzeloader is not the same as the modern  inline mulleloaders that can use bp. or smokless powder they both load from the muzzel yes. But that is all they have in common.I am not saying you guys with those type guns should not hunt with them ,you probably own one dont you. I am saying we that like oldtime bp. cartridge guns should be able to use them in a special season like Muzzeloader season.  My 1876 winchester 45-75 wcf is a cartridge gun repeater for that( quick follow-up shot )you speak of  and so is my Mk.5 Weatherby .300 Wby. NOT MANY FOLLOW-UP SHOTS NEEDED  .but again I dont think they are in the same class. I think I have a greater advantage when using my Weatherby over the old Winchester . If I am understanding you right you think there is no disadvantage when using the oldtime bp. cartridge guns . Well I disagree .If you notice I do not condemn other type of hunters or the type weapon they use ,I think we as hunters( if you are I dont know ) should support each other !To each his own Cliff.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
Everyone has there opinion . All I would like to see is the use of Black Powder Cartridges , added in with Muzzle loader season . As for any thing else keep it the same . For the Hunter who loves his inline let him use it . We don't want to be fighting amongst fellow hunters . Hey it's a Big Woods we can all be happy .
Cliff
If you use a Revolving rifle you can have 6 shots pretty fast .

[Cliff Fendley]

The deer I shot with my model 94 this year wouldn't know the difference if it was loaded with black powder or smokeless. You can load a 32-40 or 32 special either way and the performance difference wont be noticed at 50 yards. At least not with just a couple or three shots and some clean burning black powder.

It will never pass because they cant enforce it. How can someone tell what type of powder is in a cartridge?

Personally I wouldn't complain but can't see it happening. I bet the game wardens wouldn't want to have to deal with trying to enforce it.

[Big Goose]

Greetings all, and congrats to all as well for  some fine successes in the hunts. I carried my old 86 Win. 40-82 quite a bit, as well as a Ballard # 5 pacific in 44-77 SBN (Freund & Bros. marked). Didn't get the chance for a decent shot during the regular firearms deer season. Was too busy with snow and ice to get out with the muzzleloader....
 As far as "Vintage " seasons go, i see that Mississippi and Louisiana have a "primitive" season that includes single shot cartridge rifles of over 35 caliber as well as muzzleloaders. That would at least give a fellow a chance to get out in the late season with the Sharps, or Roller or Ballard...
 For sure if you don't ask it wont happen.  I have taken a few deer with my flintlock smoothbores as well as flint rifles and caplock muskets, and have carried an inline as well.... but it sure would be nice to get a little more woods time with the Spencer for instance.....
 Have a merry Christmas,
Big Goose

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Big Goose
Well I plan on asking and asking and with due time we will have a Vintage season . I can't see how this can hurt because it's a win win situation . We aren't asking to take anything away from fellow Hunters we just ask for the BPCR addition with the Black Powder season .

[dusty texian]

Thats the right attitude Rowdy, You never know until you try. I'm gonna keep trying over here in Tx. May be if they figure out they could charge us with a( Vintage Hunting stamp) ,like the Archery ,and Spring Turkey ,Muzzeloader ,stamps. They may think again. They get more revenue from more hunting,not less hunting. Bringing my Grandchildren hunting on the New yrs. school  break. Get the young involved that is our future . Dusty.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Dusty
I think your on to something . With revenue down everywhere they are all looking for ways to increase revenue . I was in hopes that the thought of  additional Hunters in the field would be enough . I was hoping that we could get enough interest across the US so eventually every State  would have a Vintage Hunting season . Maybe what we need is a Vintage Hunting Club ?

[dusty texian]

A vintage hunting club,that sounds's like it would be a great idea. I think there are a lot of other hunters out there that would be part of a vintage hunting club. Good idea Rowdy. Dusty.