Author Topic: Historic Photos/GAF weapons  (Read 158270 times)

Offline Niederlander

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #260 on: January 25, 2012, 05:28:33 AM »
Good information as always, Jack!  Grizzly, your photos remind me that I'd love to see someone do a Navy impression.  We have lots of soldiers, some Marines, but no sailors, and they were ALWAYS included in landing parties!  It would be cool to see.
"There go those Nebraskans, and all hell couldn't stop them!"

Offline Charles Isaac

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #261 on: January 25, 2012, 07:27:19 AM »
I'd love to see someone do a Navy impression. 

I agree. The US Army is VERY popular in the GAF and I would also like to see more representation from the Maritime Services!

Did River City John stop shooting as a post Civil War Tar Jack? He was great to watch engaging targets with his cartridge conversion Navy revolver and rolling block carbine!

Offline Grizzly Adams

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #262 on: January 25, 2012, 09:26:20 AM »
I do both a ACW US Navy impression and a SAW impression.  Here's a shot of my Union Navy uniform.  I was shooting a Plainsman event at EOT, so the pistol rig is NOT correct for this impression. :-[



The Civil War uniform items are available from only one or two sources.  Spanish American War or pre-WWI uniforms items are pretty much unobtainable, unless custom made.  Actual period uniforms are extremely rare and fragile.  While WWII and WWI uniforms appear, at first glance to be the same, they are very different, and are not appropriate for period impressions.

I had a local tailor make me a SAW uniform.  I wil try to get some pics of it up on another thread. :)
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Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #263 on: January 25, 2012, 11:45:03 AM »
Here's a picture of a USN landing party from the USS South Carolina (BB26) during the 1914, occupation of Vera Cruz, Mexico.  Notice the "coffee dyed" hats, and US Marine uniform items (?) sported by the these Bluejackets.



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Offline Niederlander

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #264 on: January 26, 2012, 05:36:44 AM »
Grizzly,
     That is really cool!  If you can, post some more pictures of your Navy impressions!
"There go those Nebraskans, and all hell couldn't stop them!"

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #265 on: Today at 01:35:37 PM »

Offline Charles Isaac

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #265 on: January 26, 2012, 07:30:20 AM »
Guy reclining on the right could pass for Jake Holman on the San Paublo

 I see Vin Diesel up front on the left in this one. And isn't it always like that? The people change throughout history but the faces stay the same!


Offline Charles Isaac

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #266 on: January 26, 2012, 07:39:17 AM »
Great anti boarding device there Grizzly and you definitely have the hair for a Civil War Sailor! I see you have a Sharps there and is that a Navy pistol in your holster? Looks like if the holster was black it could pass for a modified Civil War flap holster.

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #267 on: January 26, 2012, 01:03:49 PM »
Here is an image I recently came across - Canadian soldiers armed with Ross rifles:



The shot presumably fits into the Expansion Era timeframe, as the Ross rifle was Canada's primary-issue rifle from 1905 through 1916 (by which time it had proven that it was likely "the finest target/sporting rifle design ever to fail miserably in a battle rifle role".)

These appear to be the Mark II version - aka Model 1905 - in service from 1905.   The Mark III version - aka Model 1910 - was adopted in 1911 to supplant the earlier version.

Because of its service dates, am I correct that my Mark III Ross rifle could be used in Expansion Era matches?

Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Hangtown Frye

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #268 on: January 26, 2012, 01:36:22 PM »
Jack;

I picked up a Ross a few months ago (sadly in "sporterized" shape), and I have to admit that they are a very slick action. The sights are pretty darned good, too.  I can see why they were well loved as target rifles, and even as sporting rifles.  But compared to the good old "Smellie", well, not so hot for Flanders Mud!  I suspect that for another Boer War the Ross would have held up well, and probably been compared as a "far better rifle" than the SMLE for long-range rifle fights.

Cheers!

Gordon

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #269 on: January 26, 2012, 02:18:54 PM »
Hi Gordon:

My first Ross is a 'sporterized' Mark III - which will now serve as a 'parts source' for my full-military version should that need arise.  Unfortunately, such modification seems to have been the fate of the majority of Ross service rifles, so an uncut one is definitely at a premium!

Although definitely in Canadian service (buttstock marked to Lord Strathcona's Horse, as shown below) mine is so 'unaltered' that it has actually even escaped the 'bolt pinning' modification which was supposed to have been done on all Canadian service rifles to preclude the infamous possibility of re-assembling the bolt incorrectly so that it could blow out when the rifle was fired.  (Actually, it takes some real effort to get that wrong .....)

The top rifle in this first image is my unpinned full-military one -





Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #270 on: Today at 01:35:37 PM »

Offline Hangtown Frye

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #270 on: January 26, 2012, 03:44:48 PM »
Cool rifle you have there, Jack! Strathcona's Horse no less!  Very well done!

I'll have to dig out my Ross to see if it's "pinned" or not. I am pretty sure that it's a Mk III however.

I remember one of my first conversations with a range-master who ended up teaching me a LOT about firearms in general and black powder in particular, back when I was a kid, told me a horror story about a fellow shooting a Ross with the bolt re-assembled improperly.  Needless to say it put me off of Ross's for a long time (only about 40 years or so...).  However, I'm pretty impressed now that I have one.  They have a very slick action, and WAY better sights that just about anything else I can think of from that era. 

In the old tale about the Germans going to war with a hunting rifle, the Americans with a target rifle and the Brit's with an actual military rifle, I'd have to say that it probably originally was the Canadians going off to war with a target rifle. The '03 may have good sights in some respects, but the Ross has it over the Springfield in spades in my late-20th/early-21st Century opinion!

Again, I really think that in a Boer War reprise the Ross would have done well.  Probably did quite well in tests out on the prairies, in fact (especially in .280 Ross!). But there it is, we're always arming and training for the last war, and the Brits just happened to get really, really lucky with the SMLE (there was of course a storm of criticism over it at the time of it's adoption). Sadly, it proved itself to be a far better battle rifle than either the Ross or the P14, which I expect was developed along similar lines of thought as the Ross. 

Thanks again for the photo's.  I need to drag the old girl to the range to try her against an SMLE or two, just to see what the differences are.  The Ross is definitely heavier though, that's for sure!

Cheers!

Gordon

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #271 on: January 26, 2012, 04:17:15 PM »
...... The Ross is definitely heavier though .....
Actilly, I think you may want to double-check that impression - I was just reading that the Ross was a pound lighter than the SMLE .....

Edited to add: quick online check indicates the SMLE was 3.96 kg and the Ross 3.90 kg ..... which actually converts to about 1.3 pounds difference!
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Grizzly Adams

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #272 on: January 26, 2012, 04:20:51 PM »
Great anti boarding device there Grizzly and you definitely have the hair for a Civil War Sailor! I see you have a Sharps there and is that a Navy pistol in your holster? Looks like if the holster was black it could pass for a modified Civil War flap holster.

Yep, 1851 Navy.  The pistol rig is wrong however.  The correct pistol rig is called a "pistol frog" and is similar to a gun bucket, and leaves most of the barrel of the pistol exposed.  The 51 Navy was most often issued, and carried on the left side.  A belt with a hook  closure, holding a pistol cartridge box and a fuse box (for the big guns!) on the back was standard.  Blockade Runner actually sells the correct pistol rig for CW Navy - both Union and Confederate.  

The white and blue uniforms were often mixed (as in the pic, and matched depending on the location, and the commanding officer, who was to keep in mind the "comfort of the crew."  While the CSN "officially" adopted a gray and white uniform, many CSN sailors continued to wear the tradition white or blue, or combination thereof.  In both navies, sailors were often simply issued the cloth for making their own uniforms.  It was not until after the War that more standardization occurred.  

An interesting discovery was made when the CSS Hunley was recovered.  Among the items recovered inside the sub were USN uniform buttons, indicating the at least one of the crew was wearing his USN uniform! ;)
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Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #273 on: January 26, 2012, 04:33:13 PM »
That renowned swashbuckler, River City John, uses the naval 'pistol frog'.  I believe that is what he has on in this shot, although somewhat obscured by his haversack - but the "Captain Morgan" pose is priceless ......  ;D

Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Drydock

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #274 on: January 26, 2012, 04:57:36 PM »
And yes Jack, a MKIII Ross is allowed in any EEM sidematch.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Hangtown Frye

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #275 on: January 26, 2012, 05:05:55 PM »
Actilly, I think you may want to double-check that impression - I was just reading that the Ross was a pound lighter than the SMLE .....

Edited to add: quick online check indicates the SMLE was 3.96 kg and the Ross 3.90 kg ..... which actually converts to about 1.3 pounds difference!

I'll be darned.  The sporterized Ross definitely "seems" heavier than my sporterized SMLE of the same approximate dimensions.  Perhaps the Ross is just more concentrated in where it's weight lies or something.  Interesting, thanks for the update!

Cheers!

Gordon

Offline Charles Isaac

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #276 on: January 26, 2012, 05:42:57 PM »
Because of its service dates, am I correct that my Mark III Ross rifle could be used in Expansion Era matches?






Outstanding idea Sir! Leave it to Ralttlesnake Jack to show up with historic and exciting weapons!

Hangtown, I had an experience with a Mk III Ross, but only shot it after having watched the owner shoot it! It was about 20 years ago and after the owner offered for me to try it, I decided to bench it for accuracy- but all the owner had was some very old British cordite! I sat at the bench with it and proceed to get 3 hang fires out of 5 shots-and they all went into less than 2" on paper at 100 yards! I later found that they were renowned for their accuracy-go figure!

Offline Hangtown Frye

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #277 on: January 26, 2012, 05:49:26 PM »
Outstanding idea Sir! Leave it to Ralttlesnake Jack to show up with historic and exciting weapons!

Hangtown, I had an experience with a Mk III Ross, but only shot it after having watched the owner shoot it! It was about 20 years ago and after the owner offered for me to try it, I decided to bench it for accuracy- but all the owner had was some very old British cordite! I sat at the bench with it and proceed to get 3 hang fires out of 5 shots-and they all went into less than 2" on paper at 100 yards! I later found that they were renowned for their accuracy-go figure!


Smart man!   ;D

Cheers!

Gordon

Offline Charles Isaac

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #278 on: January 26, 2012, 05:55:33 PM »
Yep, 1851 Navy.  The pistol rig is wrong however.  The correct pistol rig is called a "pistol frog" and is similar to a gun bucket, and leaves most of the barrel of the pistol exposed.  The 51 Navy was most often issued, and carried on the left side.  A belt with a hook  closure, holding a pistol cartridge box and a fuse box (for the big guns!) on the back was standard.  Blockade Runner actually sells the correct pistol rig for CW Navy - both Union and Confederate. 

The white and blue uniforms were often mixed (as in the pic, and matched depending on the location, and the commanding officer, who was to keep in mind the "comfort of the crew."  While the CSN "officially" adopted a gray and white uniform, many CSN sailors continued to wear the tradition white or blue, or combination thereof.  In both navies, sailors were often simply issued the cloth for making their own uniforms.  It was not until after the War that more standardization occurred. 

An interesting discovery was made when the CSS Hunley was recovered.  Among the items recovered inside the sub were USN uniform buttons, indicating the at least one of the crew was wearing his USN uniform! ;)

Outstanding info Grizzly-thanks!

Offline Charles Isaac

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Re: Historic Photos/GAF weapons
« Reply #279 on: January 26, 2012, 05:59:34 PM »
That renowned swashbuckler, River City John, uses the naval 'pistol frog'.  I believe that is what he has on in this shot, although somewhat obscured by his haversack - but the "Captain Morgan" pose is priceless ......  ;D






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