Author Topic: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions  (Read 36306 times)

Online Drydock

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #125 on: April 29, 2010, 10:52:45 pm »
Coon Creek Old West has everything you need.  Its by far the cheapest outfit I ever had to put together.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline US Scout

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #126 on: April 30, 2010, 05:48:43 am »
Col Pitspitr and Lt Col Drydock provided me with a proposed GAF Muster Director's Guide.  I anticipate wrapping up my edits this weekend and returning the guide to them for comment.  I had two higher priority projects come up but finished the second one last night, so tonight I'm back on the Guide again. 

Their recommendations for the Era of Expansion side-matches was excellent.  For planning purposes, what they have posted here remains pretty much on target.  We'd like to keep the EoE side-matches relatively simple with regard to firearms and uniforms.

US Scout
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Offline Willie Dixon

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #127 on: July 17, 2010, 12:44:09 am »
I know this is a bit old of a topic, but I believe its a great one.

I'm a newcomer as a whole to CAS, and seeing speed freaks going nutso in SASS now with underpowered loads, and people in my area feeling the "outfit and persona aren't important, and why would you shoot a Walker Colt?!"  Has needless to say left me a bit disenchanted by SASS as a whole.

I've always felt a stronger tie to both NCOWS and GAF.

Now, that I've made a semi-quick introduction, I believe it would be amazing to see uniforms that predate WWI with their appropriate battle rifles and sidearms.  I think it could even be it's own class and a side match for we all know how fast 1903s and 1911s fire.  But again, to be able to use these weapons as they are meant, and to cherish and preserve the world's history of this era, I think would be wonderful. 

I, being a former USCG member, and firing 1911s know their speed and capabilities, and that a moderate 1911 shooter can be much faster than a quick SAA shooter and as such putting them together would ruin the "spirit of the game."  But I would like to see those that put forth a great deal of time, effort and research in a pre-WWI 1900s era uniform get the credit they deserve.  As an example, I have picked a USMC persona for the Wild Bunch in SASS and I'm going to light those targets up!  But, I also have done that because creating a persona, getting the appropriate uniforms and gear for that persona are fun.  Not "just a requirement."

Basically, it'd be great if the Wild Bunch style shooters could have their fun in GAF, it'd be even better if the pre-WWI shooters could have their fun with semi-automatic weapons of their era as well.  It'd be great to take my ol'03 out again, and not just for hunting.
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Offline Pitspitr

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« Reply #128 on: July 19, 2010, 09:52:22 pm »
Below are the Final GAF Era of Expansion Match (EEM) guidelines:


The Era of Expansion Match

The Era of Expansion Match (EEM) is designed to commemorate the era of European expansion such as the Boxer Rebellion (1899-1901), Philippine Insurrection (1899-1902), Second Boer War (1899-1902), the landing at Vera Cruz (1914), and the Pershing Expedition into Mexico (1916).

•   The EEM is a variation of what is popularly known in Cowboy Action Shooting as a “Wild Bunch” match, but with significant differences in what firearms are used and the encouragement to wear an appropriate uniform of the era. 

The EEM allows, and encourages, the use of MILSPEC firearms issued to the military between 1900 and 1916, with the exceptions noted below.
 
•   Rifle and pistol only.  Shotguns were not issued to military forces until WWI.  If a shotgun is required, it and the ammunition will be provided by the Muster Director.

•   Post-1900 design firearms may only be used in the Era of Expansion Match.  They may not be used in the long range pistol or rifle side-matches, or in the main match.

•   Post-WWI manufactured and issued MILSPEC firearms will not be used with the following exceptions only:

o   Springfield Model 1903A rifle.  Must have barrel mounted sights. WWII style receiver sights are not allowed.

o   US Enfield Model 1917 rifle: an accepted version of the British Enfield P14 in caliber .30-06. 

o   Colt Model 1917 revolver: a later model of the Model 1909 that permits the .45 ACP to be used.

o   Smith & Wesson 1917 revolver : a later model of the Model 1908 that permits the .45 ACP to be used.

o   Colt 1911A pistol.  Must be a basic model.  Beavertails, skeletonized hammers & triggers, ect.) are not allowed. 

o   Mauser rifles must be of pre-WWI design.  No WWII Mausers will be allowed.

•   The wearing of pre-1916 uniforms is encouraged but WWI specific items are WWI specific are not allowed.  Such items include, but are not limited to, steel helmets, gas masks, and other equipment or uniform items that were introduced and associated with the trench warfare in Europe.

•   The respective Brigade, Department or Division Ordnance Officer will have the final approval of any firearm used in the EEM.  There will be no appeal.

Era of Expansion Categories:

•   Regular:
o   MILSPEC Springfield 1903A1, Mauser 98, SMLE, etc.
o   MILSPEC semi-automatics or revolvers introduced prior to 1916 (see above for post-WWI firearms permitted).
o   Loading aids (3 round "C" clips for revolvers, clips for rifles, and magazines for pistols) are authorized.

•   Volunteer
o   MILSPEC Krags, MLEs, early Mausers, etc.
o   Single or double action revolvers.  No semi-automatic pistols.
o   Loading aids (magazines, stripper clips, etc) are not authorized.

•   Guardsman
•   Rifle or pistol caliber lever-action rifles
•   GAF approved semi-automatic pistol.  [I know SASS specifies the M1911A1 only – but I think as the GAF we can provide a bit more latitude and permit other semi-autos.
•   This category is designed to easily permit Cowboy Action Shooters to participate in the EEM without having to acquire new firearms.

Competitors should be encouraged to wear an appropriate period uniform that compliments the firearms they are shooting in the EEM. 

•   A separate uniform competion for the EEM will be conducted and one or more awards presented for the best uniforms.  First, Second and Third place awards should be provided to encourage competitors to shoot in uniform, and to encourage those who make the effort to match their firearms and uniforms.
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
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Offline Willie Dixon

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #129 on: July 19, 2010, 11:28:18 pm »
Thanks Mr. Pitspitr!

I must have missed it if you had posted this elsewhere.  I think this is a great addition to the GAF and will be awesome for all participants.
At 25, you need to follow dreams or you'll regret it later. 

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Offline RattlesnakeJack

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #130 on: July 20, 2010, 12:02:07 am »
Perhaps appearing soon in an "Era of Expansion" event - a full-milspec Canadian Mark III (M'1910) Ross Rifle, unit marked to Lord Strathcona's Horse  ......







 ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/

Offline Pitspitr

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #131 on: July 20, 2010, 07:08:53 am »
You didn't miss it Willie. This is a brand new post with brand new information. The command staff had been working on this all winter and it was just approved yesterday. General US Scout asked that I post the guidelines as he will be out of town for a few days and will have only intermitent access to the internet.

You will want to be sure to review the Grand Army of the Frontier Muster Guide thread as well.
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
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Offline Pitspitr

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #132 on: July 20, 2010, 07:12:08 am »
Jack, If ever I'm in your neck of the woods, I'd like to sign up for a tour of your firearms museum...er, uh, gun safe.
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
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Grand Army of the Frontier
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Offline pony express

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #133 on: July 20, 2010, 09:42:43 pm »
Jack, If ever I'm in your neck of the woods, I'd like to sign up for a tour of your firearms museum...er, uh, gun safe.

I'll second that....and don't worry, I'll bring my own "drool towel"(Got lots of them, since we have a 1 year old crawling around here)

Question on the EEM and it's uniform competition....would it count toward the overall competitions(Iron trooper, Division competition) at a grand muster?

This match sounds like it's going to be great, wish I could have made it, even at the risk of seeing River City John trying to keep cool.....


EDIT: Never mind the question....It was answered when I read the Muster Guidelines
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 10:01:00 pm by pony express »

Offline Pitspitr

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #134 on: July 20, 2010, 10:00:36 pm »
Question on the EEM and it's uniform competition....would it count toward the overall competitions(Iron trooper, Division competition) at a grand muster?

Absolutely not! The EEM is strictly a side match to be used as a warm up for the main match.
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
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Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
NRA CRSO, RVWA IIT2; SASS ROI, ROII;
NRA Patron Life; AZSA Life; NCOWS Life

Offline Pitspitr

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GAF Expansion Era Match
« Reply #135 on: July 27, 2010, 06:34:35 am »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApYp6_FgLOc&feature=youtube_gdata[/youtube]
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 07:16:57 am by Pitspitr »
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
NRA CRSO, RVWA IIT2; SASS ROI, ROII;
NRA Patron Life; AZSA Life; NCOWS Life

Offline Grizzly Adams

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #136 on: July 31, 2010, 12:08:50 am »
Below are the Final GAF Era of Expansion Match (EEM) guidelines:


The Era of Expansion Match

The Era of Expansion Match (EEM) is designed to commemorate the era of European expansion such as the Boxer Rebellion (1899-1901), Philippine Insurrection (1899-1902), Second Boer War (1899-1902), the landing at Vera Cruz (1914), and the Pershing Expedition into Mexico (1916).

•   The EEM is a variation of what is popularly known in Cowboy Action Shooting as a “Wild Bunch” match, but with significant differences in what firearms are used and the encouragement to wear an appropriate uniform of the era. 

The EEM allows, and encourages, the use of MILSPEC firearms issued to the military between 1900 and 1916, with the exceptions noted below.
 
•   Rifle and pistol only.  Shotguns were not issued to military forces until WWI.  If a shotgun is required, it and the ammunition will be provided by the Muster Director.

•   Post-1900 design firearms may only be used in the Era of Expansion Match.  They may not be used in the long range pistol or rifle side-matches, or in the main match.

•   Post-WWI manufactured and issued MILSPEC firearms will not be used with the following exceptions only:

o   Springfield Model 1903A rifle.  Must have barrel mounted sights. WWII style receiver sights are not allowed.

o   US Enfield Model 1917 rifle: an accepted version of the British Enfield P14 in caliber .30-06. 

o   Colt Model 1917 revolver: a later model of the Model 1909 that permits the .45 ACP to be used.

o   Smith & Wesson 1917 revolver : a later model of the Model 1908 that permits the .45 ACP to be used.

o   Colt 1911A pistol.  Must be a basic model.  Beavertails, skeletonized hammers & triggers, ect.) are not allowed. 

o   Mauser rifles must be of pre-WWI design.  No WWII Mausers will be allowed.

•   The wearing of pre-1916 uniforms is encouraged but WWI specific items are WWI specific are not allowed.  Such items include, but are not limited to, steel helmets, gas masks, and other equipment or uniform items that were introduced and associated with the trench warfare in Europe.

•   The respective Brigade, Department or Division Ordnance Officer will have the final approval of any firearm used in the EEM.  There will be no appeal.

Era of Expansion Categories:

•   Regular:
o   MILSPEC Springfield 1903A1, Mauser 98, SMLE, etc.
o   MILSPEC semi-automatics or revolvers introduced prior to 1916 (see above for post-WWI firearms permitted).
o   Loading aids (3 round "C" clips for revolvers, clips for rifles, and magazines for pistols) are authorized.

•   Volunteer
o   MILSPEC Krags, MLEs, early Mausers, etc.
o   Single or double action revolvers.  No semi-automatic pistols.
o   Loading aids (magazines, stripper clips, etc) are not authorized.

•   Guardsman
•   Rifle or pistol caliber lever-action rifles
•   GAF approved semi-automatic pistol.  [I know SASS specifies the M1911A1 only – but I think as the GAF we can provide a bit more latitude and permit other semi-autos.
•   This category is designed to easily permit Cowboy Action Shooters to participate in the EEM without having to acquire new firearms.

Competitors should be encouraged to wear an appropriate period uniform that compliments the firearms they are shooting in the EEM. 

•   A separate uniform competion for the EEM will be conducted and one or more awards presented for the best uniforms.  First, Second and Third place awards should be provided to encourage competitors to shoot in uniform, and to encourage those who make the effort to match their firearms and uniforms.


Excellent work!  :)

With due respect, I know that the shotgun did not play a major role until WWI, but it seems to have had a role.  I believe it was issued, and used by the some units of the American military during the Era of Expansion.

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_shotguns_history.php

Here's a shotgun in the hands of a USN Bluejacket at Vera Cruz - bottom pic.

http://www.thortrains.com/online/veracruz1.htm

In addition, the Confederate forces who engaged the Union at Valverde, New Mexico Territory used shotguns to grim effect!  Their Lancers on the other hand did not fair so well.

Respectfully,

GA




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Offline Pitspitr

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #137 on: July 31, 2010, 08:12:41 am »
We recognize that shotguns have probably been used in every American war but they didn't become an issued weapon nor were they used in any amount until WWI. But as I see it that isn't even the biggest problem with writing shotguns into the EEM. As the GAF goes more to the Skirmish format the second long arm presents a problem. You can holster your sidearm and cary the long gun. When it becomes time to use the sidearm you can hold the rifle in your off hand or sling it and still use the handgun. If you're using the shotgun, the rifle and the pistol, what do you do with the second long gun when you need to shoot something?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 08:14:50 am by Pitspitr »
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
NRA CRSO, RVWA IIT2; SASS ROI, ROII;
NRA Patron Life; AZSA Life; NCOWS Life

Offline pony express

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #138 on: July 31, 2010, 09:24:55 am »
Myself, I won't miss the shotgun at all. I only had one for CAS because that's the way the stages are written. Now that we have a GAF class at our local club, I never mess with the shotgun, just reload the pistol for the shotgun targets. I always figured that when a man went into a gunfight, he had either a rifle, or a shotgun, but not both.

Offline Bow View Haymaker

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Re: Possible GAF Wild Bunch Revisions
« Reply #139 on: July 31, 2010, 04:27:41 pm »
I still want to try forage scout in the main GAF match some time.  Just a shotgun and side arm and blast away.
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