My Third Great Uncle MOH Recipient

[RattlesnakeJack]

From the current SASS Shooter's Handbook, regarding Main Match rifles (emphasis added .....)
"Must be in a caliber commonly available in revolvers. Examples include, but are not limited to, .32-20, .32 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .38-40, .44-40, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt. The only allowed exceptions are the .25-20 and .56-50. No rifle calibers such as .30-30 or .38-55 are allowed."

(http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/RO/SASSHandbook(14).pdf)

Big difference between .45 Colt and .45-70 - standard loadings were -  250 grain (or less) bullet .452" to .454" in diameter, over 35-40 grains black powder for the .45 Colt .... 405 grain (or more) bullet .457" to .459" diameter over 70 grains black powder for the .45-70.

I agree that you may get annoyed with the relative slowness of a Spencer as a main match rifle, although the 'style points' would certainly be very substantial ...... Another rifle which you may want to consider for a persona in the time-frame shortly after the Civil War is the "Improved Henry - i.e. the Model 1866 Winchester .....

[Black Powder]

Might not the TTN coach gun be a better choice because of the exposed hammers?  I'm under the impression that hammerless shotguns appeared after the era you're honing in on. 

BP

[Willie Dixon]

I love the Henry, it just seems my GGGUncle would have liked the Spencer considering the similarities between it and the Sharps.  Don't worry about the speed factor, I'll be buying an 1895 Marlin Cowboy first in 45LC, I'm going for budget first, and then "happies" second. 

And I love rifles, I may own probably 5 or 6 pistols and 1 shotgun and be happy with those, but rifles, man oh man, I probably will never stop. Already have an M1 Garand passed down from my grandfather, an M4, SIG 552, and M14... lots of modern firepower, I just never got into the levers because I don't go hunting and a lever isn't that great for my "job"... then I found CAS!!! Now it just opened up a big barn door excuse for me to buy any and all I like!

Also, definitely to start out with, I'm not really going for speed, just safety and accuracy, the speed will come later like in all things.  Style to me means more than speed.  I'm going with "holy" black anyways and full shots/loads... I'm young, and I like the feeling.

So... here's my idea for my first set of SASS - ready gear:

rifle:


pistols:

going to take off the crappy adjustable sights, just don't look right!


shotgun:


the only problem is that the Marlin looks and seems waaaay too advanced for the Remingtons!  But that's alright for a starter I guess, I can get three of those Marlins for the price of one Spencer... rrrg why do the sweet guns have to be expensive!?

I'm also going to get a big .50 Sharps as well, for obvious reasons.
let me know what you think of this combo, I'm all good for the cap and ball and I know their nuances from my Pirating group, the cap and ball revolver is really high-tech next to my "custom" home-made harper's ferry!

and I love the exposed hammer shotguns, the only thing is that Stoeger is American made, good quality, great price, and I won't be using it that much and I'm not a fan of shotguns.  I'm a rifle kind of guy.  If you could find me a reasonably priced exposed hammer shotty instead with those same qualities, I'm in.

[Black Powder]

Stoeger imported the coach gun from Brazil as recently as 2001.  Don't know if this has changed since Benelli entered the picture. 

BP

[RattlesnakeJack]

Another thought, for what it may be worth - except for some war-expedient Confederate (and other) "low-cost" copies, brass-framed big-bore revolvers weren't made back then, and most definitely were never included by either Remington or Colt in their product lines.  The many brass-framed replicas you see nowadays are "economy" firearms (.... though perhaps that is your reason for thinking of them ....).  They are not "historically correct" and, lastly but perhaps most importantly, are not particularly durable ....especially under the rates of fire they would be subjected to as CAS revolvers.

In the long run, you would be much better off getting steel-framed Remington revolvers..  I am a fan of the Remington designs .... one of my favorite CAS sets is a pair of Model 1875 replicas, to which I added the lanyard rings which were common on the originals but apparently never offered by any of the present-day replica manufacturers .... except on the Model 1890 Remington - 'replacement parts' for which provided the rings and swivels for my modification -

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Merry Christmas Pards;

I'm with RSJ;  I'd avoid brass frame revolvers.  I think the Marlin '94 is ok to start, and it will always be there as a backup and utility  gun.  My choice for starter revolvers would be Ruger NMVs for durability (made in USA!) or Remington clones, either NMAs or cartridge guns.

I don't think there are many, if any, hammer guns actually made in the US.

I'd also suggest you contact the local CAS shooters, or go to a few shoots.  You might find used equipment, and a lot of good advice.  Most of us have gone through several sets of gear before settling down to what we could have really used from the first.  It is great to get advice before laying down that money belt full of double eagles

[Willie Dixon]

thanks for the help.

I'm a pirate guy, so the c&b doesn't frighten me at all, and for the price it can't really be beat.  I liked the brass because they were "pretty" but thanks for letting me know about their tolerances, because I had heard about that elsewhere.  I'll pick up some happy iron ones first then and purchase these as my pretties later.

I pretty much gave up on finding USA made firearms.  All of today's USA makers only care about the broadest market, thanks to massive conglomerates controlling them, I guess.  I saw that after Bernelli bought Stoeger on their website it says "Made in USA" now what that means, who knows, but it is nice to think about.  I could have had a Winchester '73 Model with the big loop lever for only 300 bucks, brand new, but it had "Made in Japan" all over it!

So basically I've given up, and I'm going to buy my fantasy guns, then research their real stamps, and engrave that in them.  I won't ever claim they are real, but at least they'll look it!

[Dr. Bob]

Actually, there were a lot of hammer doubles made in the US.  One of the earliest was Parker Bros. who were in operation by the end of the ACW.  Few were produced prior to the late 1780's, but you can still find them on the auction sites.  Remington, Stevens, Ithaca, and Colt also made hammer doubles.  And so did a myriad of other, lesser know companies. 

There were great numbers of Belgian and British hammer doubles imported as well.

In my "OLD" [5th edition] Flayderman he states that "By the 1860's improved versions [double-barrels] were utilizing centerfire, self-contained cartridges.  Hammerless models were introduced in the late 1870's.' - p,595   "Although the hammer type doubles are earlier and for man years seemed to be i greater demand and to fetch slightly higher values than comparable hammerless types, it is readily apparent that such conditions no longer exist."  p. 591

From  "The PEACEMAKERS" "The Army also ordered double-barrel shotguns by various makers, including the renowned Parker.  Some of these arms were intended for dealing with road agents, and thus were 'for use with Escorts for Paymasters.'  Officers sometimes ordered shotguns on their own.  With the 25 percent discount available to them from the Colt company there was incentive to order the Model 1878 hammer gun or the 1883 hammerless, both side-by-side doubles."

Golly gee, it's great to have some books right next to the 'puter!!     

[Willie Dixon]

thanks for that info doc.  Too bad the sawed-off version of them like in 3:10 to Yuma (even though that was a Remington I think) isn't allowed, reminds me of my .70 cal blunderbuss!

[RattlesnakeJack]

..... Too bad the sawed-off version .....  isn't allowed .....

Look what just came on the market, and can be quite legally purchased and owned, up here in Canada  ....



'Dominion Arms Outlaw' - 12 ga external hammer double with 14" barrels, just brought on the market for Can$299 (about US$245 at current exchange rates) ......

One of the odd loopholes in our firearms laws is that, although it is illegal to shorten an existing rifle or shotgun barrel to less than 457mm (18") or to shorten either type of firearm to an overall length of less than 660mm (26"), in the case of newly manufactured  rifles or shotguns only the overall length restriction applies!
       

Regrettably .... as I understand it .... an absolute no-no in the United States!   

[Fox Creek Kid]

RJ, that'll be good to take to the outhouse in the Winter up there in Canada just in case of snow snakes. 

[Willie Dixon]

man, that's exactly what I'm talking about!
that's why I love my 'buss! she's technically legal, and with double shot of powder... 3 50 cal. balls, and two loads of copper cased buck shot... yeah, bye bye target!  I need to take some pics of it at night, it's a flamethrower too!  from 15 feet away, the target had burn marks on it!

[RattlesnakeJack]

Yes, flintlocks and other muzzle-stuffers can be rather "awe-inspiring" at night!   

"Bess" and I ..... "some years ago" ....

[Willie Dixon]

LMAO!
that's awesome!  what cal musket is that?  my pic right now is of me doing a hip shot with the camera quick enough to get a blurred shot of the load, then a shot of the hay obliterated, and another of me on my back! LOL

[RattlesnakeJack]

Reproduction British Short Land Pattern musket of the American Revolutionary War era..... commonly referred to as the "Brown Bess" ..... 11 bore (.75 caliber).

[Willie Dixon]

hehe, I thought that's what you meant by "bess"! nice!

so, in your knowledgeable opinion on the subject of my GGGUncle Billy, as a rifleman, do you think a Spencer would work? 
I like it in that it's somewhat inspired by the Sharps and is unique it seems on the "fields of battle" aka the range.
or would a Springfield be better?

I love lever actions and will purchase a Marlin first, but then following I have a massive dream list of rifles I have no problem pursuing, just what would work best for Billy Dixon that I could shoot regularly.  I plan on the Sharps as well, but it's be regulated pretty much only to the long range category.  where it should be.

[Grogan]

hehe, I thought that's what you meant by "bess"! nice!

so, in your knowledgeable opinion on the subject of my GGGUncle Billy, as a rifleman, do you think a Spencer would work? 
I like it in that it's somewhat inspired by the Sharps and is unique it seems on the "fields of battle" aka the range.
or would a Springfield be better?

I love lever actions and will purchase a Marlin first, but then following I have a massive dream list of rifles I have no problem pursuing, just what would work best for Billy Dixon that I could shoot regularly.  I plan on the Sharps as well, but it's be regulated pretty much only to the long range category.  where it should be.

I'm thinking that for a Single Shot "carry rifle" either a Springfield Trapdoor Carbine in .45-70 or a Sharps '74 Carbine in either .50-70 or .45-70 would certainly be period correct.  In fact so would a Remington Rolling Block  Carbine in either one of those calibers (all of those were common amongst U.S. Gov't Scouts). 

Of course for CAS Main Match rifles a '66 Winchester would be VERY Period correct in either Rifle or Carbine format, especially in .44 WCF, which shoots great with BP ammunition.

NEWS FLASH!

I just spied a "deal" on authentic Buffalo Robe Coats.  Hehe, go here and you can realize a more "authentic" version for sale for $3,000 OFF the price of the one's I showed in above post (a few pages back) under Billy Dixon's clothing.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=14179&osCsid=94d7457fa6b0e14ed1d48de601689d53

[Willie Dixon]

Grogan,

thanks for the help.  A winchester 66 would be better than the Spencer huh?  I'm not really looking for speed, I just want to go out there and have some fun, but I do like Henrys and Winchesters.

Yeah, the Sharps is a given, I love that gun now, and I always actually did, thanks to some movies, I just never knew what it was!

Nice find on that buffalo coat, gotta love Dixie.
thanks

[Pitspitr]

Have you ever checked out the Grand Army of the Frontier? We encourage big bore single shots (battle rifle class) as our main match rifles. And we have had several Grand Muster stages based on your uncle's exploits.

Check us out in The Barracks http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?board=20.0 or at our web page http://www.grandarmyofthefrontier.org/

[Willie Dixon]

cool! thanks for the info.  I've heard about the GAF but I haven't looked into you guys yet b/c I didn't know what GAF was! I'll take a look.  I love rifles, and yeah, a springfield trapdoor, a Sharps, a Spencer, and a Remington are all on my wish list!